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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 3214 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

We have also been debating whether the sale of Scottish Bus Group took place in the 1980s or the 1990s. I think that it was the 1990s when the bus companies were sold off, but we can check that in due course.

Thank you very much indeed for giving us a very full evidence session with some very co-operative and helpful answers to our questions. We look forward to seeing delivery plans, measurable milestones and the monitoring arrangements set out in a transparent form, so that we can understand what progress is being made. As a committee, we are always very keen to get data and analysis and a transparent view of how decisions have been made and what the governance arrangements are, so I have no doubt that we will follow those up.

I thank the Transport Scotland representatives, Heather Cowan, Fiona Brown and Alison Irvine, and the COSLA representatives, Gail Macgregor and Robert Nicol. Cabinet secretary, thanks to you for shouldering most of the burden of the answers that were called for this morning. Thank you very much indeed for your time and your input.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes. Thank you.

11:15  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you, cabinet secretary. I will look at the context. When the target was set in 2020, a climate emergency had been declared by the then First Minister and we were expecting radical action. I am reminded that the target was set during the lockdown, when there was a massive drop in car use and, of course, public transport use, because of the restrictions that were in place. There was a real sense that we did not want to go back to the old world and that we had a chance to do something different. That is not what has happened, is it?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 12th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3, 4, and 5 in private. Are we agreed to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

But are we moving closer to the target or further away from it?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Before they come in, maybe you could also answer this question. I do not want to labour a technical point, but is your measurement of car use now different from the car kilometre metric? Maybe Alison Irvine can answer that.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That is a helpful clarification.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Gail Macgregor in a second. Before I do that, however, I will take you back to my question, which was: do you accept the recommendations and findings of the report? Your answer was yes. I note that the number 1 key message in this report is nothing to do with global trends and where things are and what other people are doing.

The Scottish Government set a target of a 20 per cent reduction in car use by 2030. The Scottish Government declared a climate emergency. In that context, the very first page of the report by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission states that the Scottish Government

“does not have a clear plan”

and that there is a

“lack of leadership”

and

“no costed delivery plan or measurable milestones”.

That is a pretty scathing indictment of the Government, is it not? Do you accept that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

In the evaluation report, you say that car use was measured and the car kilometre metric was used.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

You were—good. Perhaps you can answer the question that we have, then. Was COSLA involved in the setting of the 20 per cent car use reduction target in 2020?