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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Maybe—or maybe not. Ultimately, if we are creating these institutions and if Parliament is legislating to set up a way of delivering services, we should expect the leadership that is necessary to drive that forward to be in place. I guess that that is what we, as the Public Audit Committee, expect, too.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Good.

I am conscious of the time, and we still have some important areas to cover. As we are on the topic of local government, I will ask quickly about the Verity house agreement. Auditor General, I will start with you. Can you give us your assessment whether that agreement will make a difference to the delivery of mental health services?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

That was helpful.

Turning again to progress towards improving mental health services, can you tell us a bit more about the support that the Scottish Government has been providing to NHS boards to help them meet their psychological therapies waiting time targets, as highlighted in the report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

You mentioned Grampian, but Tayside is also highlighted in the report. Tayside has been the subject of not just local but national interest, because of some tragic cases of people completing suicide, for example. In that case study, you characterise things as making “good progress”. Subsequent to the Strang report, an oversight and assurance group was put together to ensure that the health board was implementing the Strang review recommendations—there were, I think, 51 of them. I read the oversight and assurance group report when it came out in January, and my reading of it was that it echoed some of the points that Strang had made, in that there was an overreporting of progress by NHS Tayside in the area. I think that, on 17 of the 51 recommendations, the group took issue with the health board’s view of how well it was doing. Basically, it said to the board, “You’re not making the progress that you are stating that you are making.”

Do you want to reflect on that issue, given that it is mentioned in the report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

I appreciate that response.

We are pressed for time. I will bring in Willie Coffey, followed by Sharon Dowey, and then I will bring in Graham Simpson if we have time.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

The deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, has some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning and welcome to the 24th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on our agenda is for members to consider whether to take items 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

The main item on our agenda is to take evidence on the Auditor General for Scotland’s report on adult mental health, which was co-written with the Accounts Commission. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses: Auditor General Stephen Boyle; Leigh Johnston, senior manager, Audit Scotland; Eva Thomas-Tudo, audit manager, Audit Scotland; and Christine Lester, Accounts Commission.

We have a large number of questions to ask but, before we get on to those, I ask the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that introduction. To go back to the starting point of the audit, the question that you set yourself was:

“How effectively are adult mental health services across Scotland being delivered?”

How would you summarise your answer to that critical question?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

I will come on to ask about the focus groups in a second. Before I do so, I note that paragraph 15 in the report sets out the scale of the challenge that we face. It talks about what appear to be almost epidemic proportions, in that 22 per cent of the adult population

“may have a psychiatric disorder”.

You talk about the huge expansion in pressure and demand on services. For example,

“The number of police incidents relating to mental health increased by 62 per cent ...The Scottish Association for Mental Health ... reported a 50 per cent increase in demand for its information service”

and

“The number of calls to NHS 24’s 111 Mental Health Hub increased by 436 per cent”.

Those are startling figures, which are presumably placing huge pressure on the system. We might not have measured the outcomes, but we know something about the scale of the demand that there is.

Do you want to tell us a bit more about the qualitative information that you got from the focus groups that you met and what that told you about their experience?