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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

But it was a stated Scottish Government policy, wasn’t it? I do not know whether that is the point that Mr Simpson is going to make. I understand what you are saying about the availability of data sharing and so on, but if the Scottish Government announces a policy and Parliament legislates for it but we are unable to deliver, it becomes a rather hollow promise, doesn’t it? You do not need to answer that question. I will bring in Graham Simpson.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, indeed. That has been a useful session for us. I thank the director general, Neil Rennick, for coming along and leading on this evidence and Eleanor Passmore for your input. Matthew Sweeney and Joanna Anderson from COSLA, thank you very much, indeed, for answering our questions and taking part in this morning’s discussion.

10:33 Meeting continued in private until 11:06.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

I am afraid that I am going to bring us back to the institutional architecture and all that. One of the things that I take from the report is the question of where the IJBs are in all of this. There is a lot of attention on the health boards’ outcomes and the local authorities’ outcomes, but the IJBs are supposed to straddle the work of those bodies and to pull it together and integrate it. Will you say a word or two about the conclusions that you drew from the work that you did on the role of the IJBs?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

I think that IJBs were described in Parliament just last week as being quite a mixed bag. I do not know whether you have discerned this from your auditing work, but is it the case that, in some areas, the IJBs are accountable and are working well, whereas in others they are not? You do not need to name any, but do you get the sense that there are different performances in different parts of the country?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

We are very tight for time. Graham Simpson, you can have the final question, if it is very quick.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thanks.

Christine Lester, will the Accounts Commission monitor the Verity house agreement and its outcomes?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Perhaps Leigh Johnston would like to come in.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Before I bring in Graham Simpson, I will take you back to the emergency budget review, in order to fully understand what you are saying. Auditor General, you said that the exercise was about identifying underspends and rationing the public finances according to that. However, when Eva Thomas-Tudo spoke about that, she said—as I interpret it—that that exercise has knocked off track the targeted support for GPs by 2026, for example. Was that going to be underspent, and that is the reason why the £38 million cut was made, or has the £38 million cut resulted in your assessment that that will not be on track?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 28 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Auditor General, for the evidence that you have led this morning, along with Leigh Johnston, Eva Thomas-Tudor, and Christine Lester from the Accounts Commission. I thank you all very much for giving us your time and your thoughts and reflections, and for giving us some very useful evidence that we will now consider in deciding what next steps we want to take on this hugely important area.

May I say, Auditor General, that I think that this is one of the strongest reports that you have produced, certainly in my time as the convener of the Public Audit Committee. It is very clearly driven by the evidence and has reached some pretty stark conclusions that I think all of us, as members of the Scottish Parliament, will need to reflect on. Thank you very much indeed.

10:34 Meeting continued in private until 11:25.