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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

We are joined this morning by Graham Simpson, who has a number of questions that he wants to put to you, Mr Boyle.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

If there are any live cases, I do not want to prejudice them by discussing them at this meeting of the Public Audit Committee.

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Therefore, you looked at that yourself. Were you also satisfied that the director general had scrutinised and analysed that to the depth that was necessary to arrive at the conclusion that written authority was required?

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

That is fine. You will be aware of, and you have alluded to, the fact that Gregor Irwin, the director general economy, appeared before the committee a couple of weeks ago. During that evidence session, we spoke to him about access for the committee to the Teneo report and the information that led to the decision to request a written authority. At the time, he told us:

“What we are doing—and what we will work through with the Auditor General and his team—is seeing what we can do to share additional information. That process is on-going and is not yet complete, but we absolutely need to get it right, because we are committed to transparency.”

Two weeks later, we got a letter back from Mr Irwin saying no to that request. What happened between 1 June and 14 June?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 19th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. We have apologies from Colin Beattie this morning; I welcome Bill Kidd who is substituting for him. I also welcome Graham Simpson, who is joining this morning’s meeting.

The first item on our agenda is for members of the committee to agree to take items 4, 5, 6,7 and 8 in private. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

The First Minister tells us in his document “Equality, opportunity, community: New leadership—A fresh start” that

“it is imperative that transparency underpins our approach to delivery. My government will ensure the people of Scotland have the information they need to hold us to account.”

How do you reconcile that statement of intent with what has happened with this issue?

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Surely there is nobody in the Government more familiar with what is in that Teneo report than the director-general economy. Why would he sit two weeks ago where you are sat today and say that work was on-going, that he was having discussions with Audit Scotland and that he hoped to release at least some of the information in that document?

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

That includes the rationale for the request for written authority. That is quite a narrow focus. Gregor Irwin falls back on the use of the word “narrow” quite a number of times in his evidence to the committee and in some of the written information that we have seen. That rationale is quite a narrow focus, is it not? Why would that preclude even some of the Teneo report or even some of the information that was the basis for that decision—as you said, the decision was very unusual; it was the first time that there had been a written authority since 2007—being provided?

Public Audit Committee

Written Authority: Completion of Vessel 802

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

I said that Willie Coffey would ask the final questions, but Graham Simpson has indicated that he wants to come in with a brief one.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 22 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will get us under way and really home in on the compliance issue. When we received the section 22 report last year, there was concern that governance arrangements were way off what they should have been in relation to publication of minutes, internal audit procedures and, even, the convening of meetings. Big alarm bells were ringing at that time.

In this report, you are saying to us, in essence, that stabilisation has occurred and compliance with codes of good governance is in place. It is mentioned in the report that compliance was in place “by 31 July 2022”, which is very precise. Did things happen in advance of or in the lead-up to that date, or was that when the change took place?