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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

On that note, I will draw the public part of this morning’s session to a close. Before I do so, I thank our witnesses this morning—Eva Thomas-Tudo, who joined us online, Fiona Lees, Carol Calder and the Auditor General. You have given us quite a lot of food for thought and we will need to consider whether we would like to quiz other people about some of the recommendations and outcomes of the very important report that we have been discussing.

11:34 Meeting continued in private until 12:05.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Well, until half past 11 at least.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Interests

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 15th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2025. We have received apologies from Stuart McMillan, so I welcome Stephanie Callaghan, who is substituting for Stuart. She is attending virtually for this, her first Public Audit Committee meeting.

Because it is your first meeting, Stephanie, I ask you to declare any relevant interests.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 3 is consideration of the report by the Auditor General for Scotland “General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”. I am pleased to welcome the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle. Alongside the Auditor General we have Carol Calder, audit director at Audit Scotland. Joining us online is Eva Thomas-Tudo, audit manager at Audit Scotland. Also joining us in the committee room, we have Fiona Lees, senior auditor at Audit Scotland. You are all very welcome.

We have a number of questions to put to you on the report that you have produced. However, before we get to those questions, I invite you to give us a short opening presentation, Auditor General.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

On that last point, it does not feel as though there is a whole-system approach. We regularly, as the Public Audit Committee, hear the Scottish Government and representatives from health boards say that they have been asked to make recurring and non-recurring savings of 5 per cent every year. Often, when we get into it, the non-recurring savings involve things such as disposal of property or land. Unless this is properly resourced, it is simply not going to work, is it?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I am obviously interested in that aspect of reform as convener of the Public Audit Committee.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Last week, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary in Scotland talked to the committee about some collaborative work that he is doing with Audit Scotland, on a best value audit of Police Scotland, so there are good examples of such synergies.

Let me move from the existing landscape to the process. As I read it, you have a 13-step process in the ministerial control framework to assess whether a new body is warranted. The mantra underpinning that is that

“any new public body should only be set up as a last resort.”

What does that mean in practice?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The framework was introduced exactly two years ago, in May 2023. In those two years, how many new public bodies have been created?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That would be helpful.

One of the steps—I think that it is step 11—refers to occasions on which ministerial written authority might be required. In other words, the civil service’s assessment is presumably that the proposal does not represent efficiency, effectiveness or economy, but, nonetheless, there is a political imperative to create the new body or position. Are there any examples of cases in which such authority has been required?