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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Can I go back to a fairly fundamental question? Do you accept the findings of the Auditor General’s report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes, of course, Mr McQueen.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Mr Rennick, you will have heard the Auditor General’s evidence to the committee on the report that we are discussing this morning. He said that Victim Support Scotland and Rape Crisis Scotland

“were not used to the extent that we might have expected”.—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 8 June 2023; c 9-10.]

Have you reflected on that over the summer and are you redoubling your efforts to address that shortfall?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Finally, let me turn to another related aspect. The report is quite critical of your approach to considering the equality impact of decisions that you have made and of the transformational change programmes that you have.

At paragraph 79, the Auditor General rightly points out the “unequal impact” of the court backlog. For example, he points to three categories of people. One is young children who are going through a formative experience in life. If they are witnesses or, indeed, victims, those delays will have a disproportionate and potentially devastating impact on them. The Auditor General’s conclusions were that he did not see enough evidence that those issues were being sufficiently taken into account.

Secondly, women disproportionately are caught up in the court backlog system, again as witnesses and, unfortunately, often as victims in the system. What account has been taken of that in addressing where the resources need to go and where the priorities are?

Thirdly, the Auditor General points out—this goes back to earlier questions that we had this morning—the situation that we have with people on remand in our prisons. You described how we have both the highest prison population and the highest proportion of those in the prison population who are on remand of almost anywhere but, even within that, there are great inequalities. The Auditor General points out that 25 per cent of males in prison are on remand, 30 per cent of women in Scottish prisons are on remand and 48 per cent of young people in Scotland’s prisons are on remand.

Why have you not sufficiently built equality impact assessments into decisions on the work that you have been doing, that you are doing and that you will do in the future?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Just so that we are clear, at the end of paragraph 81, the Auditor General concludes:

“we found very limited evidence that equality impact assessments were developed in a timely manner for most of the RRT workstreams and initiatives, with only two equality impact assessments prepared.”

That is a very poor result, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Is it not the case that equality impact assessments and equality considerations, rather than being some bolt-on at the end to check how you did, should have been built into the foundation of the work that you were doing?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. On that note of agreement, I draw this morning’s evidence session to a close. I thank Mr Rennick, Ms Dalrymple and Mr McQueen for their time. We have quite a lot to consider in the evidence that we have taken. We will certainly consider what our next steps are. Thank you very much once again for being here with us this morning. I will now move the committee out of public session and into private session.

10:30 Meeting continued in private until 11:26.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. I take you back to my original question. To what extent is that currently fully costed?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s report on the criminal courts backlog. I am pleased to welcome three witnesses. From the Scottish Government, we have the director general for education and justice, Neil Rennick, and the interim director of justice, Catriona Dalrymple. We are also joined by Eric McQueen, who is the chief executive of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service. We have a number of questions, but, before we get to them, I invite Mr Rennick and then Mr McQueen to make some opening remarks.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Criminal courts backlog”

Meeting date: 14 September 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I will bring in the rest of the committee shortly, but I will begin by asking about something that Mr Rennick alluded to in his opening comments, which was that the backlog in our criminal courts has had a really significant effect on victims and witnesses who are waiting for justice to be served. What additional support has been given, either directly by the Scottish Government or the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service or through other relevant support and advocacy organisations, to allay some of the impacts that the delays have had on victims and witnesses?