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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

The main item for the committee is agenda item 2, which is further consideration of the joint Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland report on adult mental health.

We have already held a series of round-table evidence sessions, as well as having a session with the Auditor General and his team. This morning, we are pleased to welcome witnesses from the Scottish Government to give us their response to the evidence that we have already taken and to answer some of the questions that we have.

I am pleased that we are joined by the accountable officer, Caroline Lamb, who is the chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director general of health and social care in the Scottish Government. Alongside the accountable officer, we have Gavin Gray, who is the deputy director of improving mental health services, and Dr Alastair Cook, who is the principal medical officer in the mental health division of the Scottish Government.

Before we get to our questions, I invite Caroline Lamb to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Again, I go back to the point that I made earlier, which is that the Scottish Government made increasing mental health funding by 25 per cent to ensure that 10 per cent of all spending on the NHS front line is on mental health services a priority. I would therefore expect the Scottish Government to take some responsibility to ensure that those outcomes are being met.

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I think that the answer to my question is no. Although that will be mopped up as part of the national care service review, you do not necessarily expect any fundamental reform of the architecture of adult mental health services.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I go back to a point that I alighted on very briefly, which is based on the evidence that we took from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. You seem to paint a picture of things going pretty well, but we were told that the system is hugely overreliant on locums. Do you have a strategy for tackling that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

A particular occupational group that we have not yet spoken about explicitly is community link workers. When Christiana Melam from the National Association of Link Workers gave evidence to the committee on 16 November, she basically said that link workers feel quite undervalued in the system, and cited their not even being listed as a group to be consulted in relation to statutory guidance for the Health and Care (Staffing) (Scotland) Act 2019. Caroline, what is your view on the role of community link workers?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I do not know whether you were sitting watching that 16 November evidence session with a cheque book in your hand, because the rise in funding for community link workers was announced at the same time as we were taking evidence on that issue.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Can I just clarify something for the record? We spoke at the beginning of the meeting about the £29.9 million cut, which would have an effect on primary care services and community link workers as part of that whole network. Are those community link worker positions protected from the likely cuts that are coming down the track?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I will take us back to one of the fundamentals that we have discussed a few times this morning. Do you believe that NHS boards are on track to meet the target of 10 per cent of all front-line spending being on mental health services?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

In other words, that might mean a shift from some areas of current expenditure in acknowledgment that mental health is a growing issue that should be a central part of the national health service’s work, perhaps in a way in which it has not historically been a part.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes. To go back to a point that Graham Simpson made earlier, we recognise that some of the data is required for management purposes, but the committee would strongly support the maximum amount of data being in the public domain so that people can understand what is going on and follow implementation of the policy and delivery of outcomes.

We have come to the end of our evidence session. I thank Alistair Cook, Gavin Gray and Caroline Lamb for being with us this morning. In particular, I thank you for coming to the committee room. Quite a few of our evidence sessions have been with people who have joined us remotely, which is not always easy. You might be surprised to learn that technology sometimes fails, although, on the whole, we have had really good evidence sessions.

Thank you very much for the time that you have given us this morning and for being so willing to answer the questions that we have put to you.

10:39 Meeting continued in private until 11:20.