The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3919 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay. I call Mr Simpson.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
On 1 December, not by 1 December.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much. I bring in the deputy convener.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Do you know how many of those contracts that are coming to an end between now and 2030 involve some kind of costs? Kerry Alexander might be able to help with that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay. The BBC carried a story with the headline “PFI ‘buy back’ deals to cost taxpayer millions”. I do not know about the figure of millions of pounds, but it referred to 11 PFI contracts. However, you think that the figure is nine. Can you comment on that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
As you have mentioned East Ayrshire, I am bound to go into the broader issue of the East Ayrshire community hospital. The then First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced that that hospital was going to be taken back into NHS Ayrshire and Arran earlier than the time scheduled in the PFI contract, and I think there has been an estimate of the additional cost. If that issue fell to your department, Mr Rennick, would there not have to be a conversation between the minister—in that case, the First Minister—and you as the accountable officer as to whether that was the right decision?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
There was an announcement recently about Falkirk schools, presumably by Falkirk Council. Is that a proposal to bring them in house earlier than the expiry date of the PFI?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Again, I am struggling to understand under what circumstances the public sector would walk away from a lease. If you have a hospital that is 25 years old, you will not abandon it, presumably. I suppose that there may be circumstances where you might do that, but it is highly unlikely, is it not? In comparative terms, it will still be a relatively new piece of infrastructure that is running as part of the health service. I am struggling to understand why, under those circumstances, walking away would be considered an option and, therefore, why there is this exit fee premium to be paid.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Could I pick up on Mr Jobson’s answers? You have existing staff who were employed by Serco on certain terms and conditions of employment, and you have recruited new people to work at the prison who are on different terms and conditions of employment, specifically with fewer hours, more breaks and more annual leave. Presumably, that could be a cause of some conflict if existing long-serving staff see that people that they are working alongside are getting much better leave and break arrangements. How are you managing that operationally? If I am on a shorter working week than somebody else, how do you manage that? Also, how are you managing the potential for conflict between one group of workers and another?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
It would be useful for the committee if you could give us the comparison of the overall cost under the old model and the overall running cost under the new model, so that we can get an understanding about whether a transfer from a PFI-style contract into an in-house arrangement costs more or is about even. It may vary from situation to situation. Mr Rennick also has responsibility for schools, for example, so it may be that these issues are not so acute in other parts of the public sector where PFI transitions are likely to take place.
I also have one other issue to raise with you. For the record, Teresa Medhurst, are you saying that, on 1 December, there will be a big bang and that is when everybody in HMP Kilmarnock will move over to the SPS’ terms and conditions, or is there a period leading up to 1 December in which different cohorts will transfer to the new terms and conditions under the new contract?