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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 February 2026
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Displaying 3715 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 32nd meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.

Under agenda item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 4 to 8 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s report, “Financial sustainability and taxes”.

I am pleased to welcome to the committee the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle. Alongside the Auditor General, we have Richard Robinson, senior manager, and Thomas Charman, senior auditor, both from Audit Scotland. We have quite a number of questions to put to you this morning on the report, Auditor General, but before we get to those, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I am now going to turn to Colin Beattie, who has some questions for you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Financial sustainability and taxes”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That ends this very useful session. I take the opportunity to thank you again, Auditor General, for presenting that evidence and producing the report. I also take the opportunity to thank Thomas Charman and Richard Robinson for their evidence this morning. We need to consider what our next steps are, and we will take a bit of time to look at that.

I will suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

10:47 Meeting suspended.  

10:52 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

You have not read all of it. Which bits have you read?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That is fine. It is just that, in the course of this morning, we may turn to things that the Auditor General said.

Mr Watson, do you want to say anything at the outset?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes, but I do not think that any of us would accept that there was nothing to see here, Mr Watson.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

That is not how the Auditor General viewed the situation when he gave evidence to us on 8 October, and we can return to that.

One of the things that have been reported is that, under your tenure as the principal and chief executive, there were five different finance directors. Why was that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Joe FitzPatrick in a second, but can I just take you back, Mr Watson, to some of the fundamentals here? When we took evidence from the Auditor General on 8 October, he said:

“I ... cannot recall, from my time in this role and during my career of auditing public bodies in Scotland, an organisation that has not prepared an annual budget.”

In your time—in your career—Mr Watson, have you ever been part of an organisation that has not prepared an annual budget?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Richard Leonard

We are talking about an organisation that is governed by the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Act 2000 and is subject to the Scottish public finance manual. We are not talking about a private enterprise. We are talking about public money, which is why we expect certain standards to be met.

The Auditor General said:

“a budget gives an organisation an anchor with which to measure how it is progressing during the year.”

Margaret Cook, do you not accept that that is a fact?