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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 June 2025
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Displaying 3214 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. This is the start of a consultation process, and I know that other committees of the Parliament might also have a view on what best, or optimum, practice might be when it comes to the work that you are doing on some of these areas.

We will now move on, and I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Indeed. I will invite Colin Beattie first, and then Stuart McMillan, to raise some questions with the Auditor General in that area.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Graham Simpson has some questions.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Our main agenda item this morning is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s work programme for the year April 2025 to March 2026, which effectively takes us up to the next Scottish Parliament election.

I am very pleased to welcome Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland. Alongside the Auditor General are Alison Cumming, who is an executive director of performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland, and Mark MacPherson, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland.

We have quite a number of questions to put to you this morning, Auditor General, but before we get to those, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed.

I will begin by looking at the general picture. At the very start of what you just said and in your written presentation to the committee, you set out pretty clearly the challenges that are being faced by all public bodies, led by the Scottish Government.

You gave a sense that things are not really going in the right direction. You talked about demand for public services rising at the same time as the financial outlook is, in your words, “challenging and volatile”. You also talked about the growing gap between budget forecasts and spending plans, and a lack of clarity around that issue and how it will be addressed.

The recurring theme throughout your presentation is around the sustainability of public services—particularly, although not exclusively, their financial sustainability.

You also reminded us that there are still persistent inequalities that are not being addressed, and that the outcomes that people experience show significant variations, based on disability, race, where they live and the extent to which they are living in an impoverished community or in poverty themselves.

All of those things pose big challenges. The big question is, then: how do you think that the Scottish Government is responding to those challenges?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

That is tomorrow.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I have a question on a minor point. When you have undertaken these kinds of pieces of work in the past, you have often spoken to people with lived experience. So, in the work that you are doing and which you plan to do on Social Security Scotland, the adult disability payment and so on, will you speak to people in receipt of that payment to understand how they are affected by the way in which it operates?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yesterday, I was reflecting on the fact that Graham Simpson and I are both Central Scotland MSPs, and the two health boards in our area have had quite significant leadership changes in quite a short space of time. Next week, the new chief executive officer of NHS Lanarkshire starts; this is no comment on that individual at all, but they will be the third CEO in two and a half years. If you include the interim CEO, NHS Forth Valley is on to its third CEO in less than two years.

There seems to be quite a lot of turbulence in those leadership positions. Are the underlying reasons for that part of what you are looking at? Are they being given the support that they need? Is one potential facet the revolving door, which means that people just move between health boards? Is that creating an instability in the leadership of territorial NHS boards?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

What is your anticipated timetable for that? Will your analysis of the major capital projects prioritisation be something that you will do some work on and put in the public domain before the end of this year, for example?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Stuart McMillan in a second, but first I want to ask you about an expression that you used earlier. You have just described the consequences for democratic scrutiny and for some of the decisions that the Government needs to make of the delays to the medium-term financial strategy. You also said in your opening statement that the Government has not yet delivered “at pace” on things such as public sector reform. That is a very mild criticism, is it not? There is an inference that the Government could be pressing ahead at a quicker rate than it actually is.