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Displaying 3919 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
We have the chief executive of NHS Scotland coming before the committee before we break for summer recess, so we could consider the issue then.
My parting question is around lessons learned. Teresa Medhurst, I know that you and your colleagues are still in the middle of the transition but, even at this early stage, do you think that there are things that you might have done differently? Lorraine Roughan, when you go to Kerry Alexander’s collaborative workshops and share your experience, what are the dos and don’ts that you would take to that kind of get together?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
That is very insightful. Does anyone else want to come in with lessons learned, or things that we can do in relation to future examples of PFI expiries?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
We are in the middle of a general election campaign, Mr Reekie, so who knows what the future might hold.
I thank our witnesses this morning for their input. It has been very useful to us and the committee will have a continuing interest in this area, so I thank you for giving us some of those introductory lessons. We may go on to future phases of analysis and audit in the area, and I am sure that the Auditor General will be taking some notes from this morning’s session, too.
I now move the meeting into private session.
10:40 Meeting continued in private until 11:11.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
My final question is for Mr Rennick. Looking at the scale of all this, I think that the total value of these contracts is £9 billion and that around half of that is in schools, is it not, which is your responsibility?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Do you have any sense of when demand will be greatest on the capacity of that part of the public sector that you have oversight of?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay. One of the other variables on these contracts is that some have so-called secondary periods, which is, as I understand it, an extension of the PFI contract. Can you tell us what your understanding is of how many of those are in the system or we are likely to face between, for example, now and 2030?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Our major item for consideration this morning is a look into how expiring private finance initiative contracts are dealt with, which is something that the committee has delved into over the past few months. I am very pleased that we have a line-up of people who will, I hope, shed some light on that process, how it is working and how it might work in the future.
I am very pleased to welcome Neil Rennick, the director general for education and justice in the Scottish Government; Peter Reekie, the chief executive of the Scottish Futures Trust; Kerry Alexander, the director of infrastructure, finance and programmes at the Scottish Futures Trust; Teresa Medhurst, the chief executive of the Scottish Prison Service; Lorraine Roughan, the project executive for His Majesty’s Prison Kilmarnock; and Adam Jobson, the director of organisational development at the Scottish Prison Service. You are very welcome.
We have quite a number of questions to put to you this morning, but before we get to those, I invite Neil Rennick and Teresa Medhurst to make brief opening remarks.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much, indeed. Can I ask an opening question of the director general? Did you say that the Scottish Government is not directly responsible for the process? You are the accountable officer, are you not? Your responsibility is to make sure that there is value for money in the outcomes from the process.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Yes. I understand that you are not in breach of the TUPE regulations. You could continue to pay the staff at the Serco rates and employ them on the Serco terms and conditions. Our point of interest here is that, given that these are the people who make the prison work or not work so how they are treated is quite important, there are questions about how that is working and whether it could be done in a different way. Could it be done in a more accelerated way, given that we understand that there are some issues around capacity?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 6 June 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay. I am going to bring in other members of the committee. I will bring in Jamie Greene, and Graham Simpson may also have a question on the subject.