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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
Before I bring in Colin Beattie, I will go back to exhibit 2, which looks at the human rights of people who are potentially affected by digital exclusion. It identifies examples of that, including blue badge holders; people not being able to access council tax reductions or their welfare benefits accounts; ethnic minority citizens not being able to access services that they are entitled to, because of language barriers; and welfare sanctions for people who cannot upload their journals online.
The report highlights that the application process for a blue badge is online only. How does that sit with the stated aims of COSLA and the Scottish Government on the lenses of inclusion and offering signposted alternatives? If the application process is exclusively online, it will, almost inevitably, exclude people who are entitled to a blue badge.
10:00Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
We are short of time, so we will move on to Colin Beattie to ask the next questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
The Scottish Government’s strategy document says:
“We will ... ensure that all public services are designed through the lenses of inclusion, offering signposted alternative ways of accessing services for those who cannot or do not want to use digital routes”.
To what extent is that happening? You have mentioned the example of Near Me but, across the whole of the public sector and the provision of public services, how often are those services
“designed through the lenses of inclusion”?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
Your report says that that has potential to make an unequal society more unequal. Paragraph 18 talks about the negative impacts. People who are digitally excluded are less likely to have access to information in general, are less likely to have access to the jobs market or to know about their children’s education and are less able to maximise their financial position because they cannot get access to things that would be cheaper if they could use that route. They can incur debts or have heightened social isolation. All those results compound inequalities, rather than addressing them.
The Government’s stated position in “A Changing Nation” is that
“We tackle poverty by sharing opportunities, wealth and power more equally.”
It does not seem to me that there is a lot of evidence of that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
Graham Simpson, did you want to come in briefly at this point?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
I am keen to move things on. Our deputy convener has a number of questions to put to you. Over to you, Jamie.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
Graham Simpson wants to pick up on some of those points and develop others.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 21st meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee, which is our first after the Parliament’s summer recess. Fulton MacGregor is joining us remotely.
First, are members content to take agenda items 4, 5 and 6 in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
I have a quick question before I bring in our final questioner. We read in the report that the Government proposes having a “minimum digital living standard”. Could you tell us a little bit more about what on earth that is?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 5 September 2024
Richard Leonard
Thank you. That is helpful.
I will move on. Our final questioner is Fulton MacGregor, who, fittingly, given the topic of this morning’s evidence, is joining us digitally, by video link, from North Lanarkshire.