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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Thanks for that—it is duly noted.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Ellie Gomersall, I will bring you in at that point because, as a representative of the users of those important educational services, I am sure that you have a really clear perspective on what it means for the students that you represent that this is going on.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

In the evidence session with the Auditor General, the committee raised the fact that the new Government slogan is “equality, opportunity, community”, but how does that prism fit on to what is going on in the further education sector?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Stuart Brown wants to come in—briefly, because I want to talk about a passage in the report about significant areas of risk for colleges, which cover a broader palette of things. I will invite Andy Witty to come in on that.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That has opened up a whole frontier that we are going to cover, including the Withers report.

I am conscious that John Mooney has not come in yet. Before I move on to questions from Colin Beattie, who will be asking about the college estate and so on, I will ask you this, John. Exhibit 2 describes risk factors. We have heard from Ellie Gomersall about the student experience, but let us consider the perspective of your members. The final risk that the Auditor General identifies is

“The impact of cost efficiencies on staff wellbeing”.

What are you seeing as a trade union? What is the impact of that? We are in a period in which inflation has been pretty high by historical standards—certainly by recent historical standards. There has been a flat cash settlement for three consecutive years. What has the impact of that been on your members?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes. Thank you very much. I invite Colin Beattie to take us through a conversation about where things are with the college estate, which is one of the focal points in the briefing that the Auditor General prepared.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

The second item on our agenda is further consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s briefing note, “Scotland’s colleges 2023”. I welcome everyone to the meeting. We are taking evidence in a round-table format, which is intended to promote a freer flow of discussion and, maybe, a less confrontational style of evidence taking. As it is a round table, I invite our witnesses to introduce themselves.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed.

I draw this evidence session to a close. I reflect on the fact that the closing paragraphs of the Auditor General’s state bluntly:

“Addressing the challenges facing the college sector cannot be avoided or postponed.”

I think that the evidence we have taken today certainly shows that everyone around this table is clear that that is an absolute truism. As I said at the start, when we get to January, we will have the Scottish Government and the Scottish Funding Council before us. That paragraph of the report goes on to make clear that the responsibility lies at their door, so we will do our level best to try to get some answers from them.

I thank you for your evidence, which has been very lucid and forthright and is valuable to us as a Public Audit Committee. Good luck to those who are involved in negotiations this afternoon. You may be travelling in hope, rather than expectation, but hope is a valuable commodity. I thank Ellie Gomersall, Derek Smeall, John Mooney, Andy Witty and Stuart Brown for their time and for the insights that they have given us, and I now move the committee into private session.

10:54 Meeting continued in private until 11:23.  

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

John Mooney wants to come in, and then we will have to move on, as the clock is against us.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 30 November 2023

Richard Leonard

I think that John Mooney and Ellie Gomersall wanted to come in. Andy Witty has already come in on that point. We will go to John first and then Ellie.