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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I want to develop that point.

One of the things that stood out for me was table 2, which shows your budgeted expected income from various public bodies that you charge fees to. If I am reading that table correctly, it says that the proposal is that the audit fees that are charged to further education colleges will rise by 6 per cent, the income generated from the fees charged to local government and the national health service bodies will increase by 8.7 per cent, and the expected fee income from central Government bodies—Scottish Government departments and sponsored bodies—is projected to decline by 1.3 per cent. What is the strategy that lies behind that?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

So, there will be net savings on the estate by 2025.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay, but it is useful for us, as a commission, to be able to compare one financial year with the next financial year, or apples with apples, so perhaps there is a better way that you could present that information. Can I deduce from what you have told us that the fees that you are charging to Scottish Government departments and sponsored bodies of the Scottish Government are also rising by 6 per cent?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Can you just confirm what the strategy is? You have described how the Government has stated that, for understandable reasons, it wishes to grow the national health service workforce. Exactly a week ago, we had representatives from the further education sector talking about pretty drastic reductions already and contemplating even more drastic workforce cuts in the future. A couple of weeks ago, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance stated on the BBC that the public sector workforce will have to shrink. If the public sector workforce has to shrink, the policy is to grow the NHS workforce and we have seen one component of the public sector in front of us describing some pretty catastrophic decisions that it is contemplating, what is the overarching strategy?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

We all understand that an institution such as the Scottish National Investment Bank will back some winners and some losers, but it is quite unusual for the loser to be directly under the ambit of the Scottish Government, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

One of the recurring questions is: why did the Government step in to buy Prestwick airport but not step in to save the Glasgow Caledonian railway works in Springburn? It owns Prestwick airport, and there has been speculation in the past week or so that other Scottish airports will be put up for sale by their present owners. Is there any consideration, under the Scottish Government’s business investment framework, of whether it will step in?

To what extent is the strategic commercial assets division concerned just about managing the here and now and the enterprises that are currently owned by the Scottish Government? To what extent is it looking across the whole Scottish economy and saying, “Well, that enterprise is strategically important, but it is in trouble—maybe we should consider stepping in and taking over ownership of it”? What is your sense of how that works in the new landscape, with, as you described it, the new infrastructure that has been created to look at those issues?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Absolutely. I will throw into the pot the fact that the GFG Alliance is being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office.

Before we move to another area of questioning, I will take you back to what you told us on 27 January last year. You said:

“there is an increasing likelihood that the guarantee will be called upon.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 27 January 2022; c 7.]

Do you have an update on where you stand on that question?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Judging from the reaction around the table, it probably would be of interest.

I will finish with a fairly easy question. Is the Government on track to meet its legally binding net zero targets by 2045, which would be five years ahead of the rest of the UK?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you. I will move things along. Sorry—Graham Simpson wants to come in.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will, no doubt, have the accountable officers from the Government and, possibly, the permanent secretary before us in the new year to talk about some of those things.

The committee has also concerned itself with Ferguson Marine (Port Glasgow) Ltd. As you highlight in the section 22 report on the consolidated accounts, a written authority was required this year for the first time since 2007. The director general for the economy sought a written authority from the cabinet secretary, because he did not think that continuing to construct vessel 802 in the yard represented, in his assessment, value for money. That was based on some external reports, as well. To what extent have you had access to the documentation that informed the Government’s decision making on that?