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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Before I bring in Willie Coffey, I want to ask you about a proposal that was put to us by the Mental Health Foundation. It said that, in order to tackle mental health inequalities, there ought to be an assessment of the impact on mental health of all Government decision making. Do you accept that that is worth exploring?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

The Auditor General has obviously chosen to produce the report on adult mental health services because it is a matter of public interest.

Caroline Lamb, I will take you back to your initial response when I put to you the evidence that we had taken from both the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland and the Auditor General. At 9 o’clock, you said that you accepted all the key messages in the report. However, before the clock got to half past 9, you were distancing yourself from the very clear message that there is a view, which has been reinforced in all the round-table evidence sessions that we have had, that the system is fragmented and that there are issues around accountability in the system. Do you not accept any of that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Are you saying that you think that that is working well?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Do you have a shared perspective on the scale of the challenge?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

I invite the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to put some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you. In order to move things along, I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. Graham Simpson mentioned case study 2 in the report. Can I ask you about case study 4, which is not Trieste but Tayside? There have been some pretty catastrophic failures in the approach of the mental health service in NHS Tayside. The experience of people at Carseview in particular produced some very harrowing personal tragedies for families. What information can you give us about current adult mental health services in NHS Tayside?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I will finish with a fairly straightforward, I think, question. The COSLA and Scottish Government mental health strategy was published after the Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland reports came out, and the committee is very interested to know when you will publish a progress report on where you are with the commitments in the delivery plan and, in particular, when you will report back on the workforce action plan. Again, for the avoidance of doubt, we have been told by a number of witnesses that there is—to quote their expression—a “workforce crisis”. When is there likely to be a progress report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

The main item for the committee is agenda item 2, which is further consideration of the joint Accounts Commission and Audit Scotland report on adult mental health.

We have already held a series of round-table evidence sessions, as well as having a session with the Auditor General and his team. This morning, we are pleased to welcome witnesses from the Scottish Government to give us their response to the evidence that we have already taken and to answer some of the questions that we have.

I am pleased that we are joined by the accountable officer, Caroline Lamb, who is the chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director general of health and social care in the Scottish Government. Alongside the accountable officer, we have Gavin Gray, who is the deputy director of improving mental health services, and Dr Alastair Cook, who is the principal medical officer in the mental health division of the Scottish Government.

Before we get to our questions, I invite Caroline Lamb to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Again, I go back to the point that I made earlier, which is that the Scottish Government made increasing mental health funding by 25 per cent to ensure that 10 per cent of all spending on the NHS front line is on mental health services a priority. I would therefore expect the Scottish Government to take some responsibility to ensure that those outcomes are being met.

09:15