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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I thank the permanent secretary, John-Paul Marks, for his time and his willingness to answer our questions. It is greatly appreciated. I also thank Gregor Irwin, Jackie McAllister and Alison Cumming for giving us the benefit of their insights into the way the Government is working and how the reform programme is progressing.

I will close the public part of this morning’s meeting and move the committee into private session. Thank you very much.

11:16 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Not to paraphrase the Deputy First Minister too heavily but, when she presented it to the Parliament, she accepted that there was no fundamental change and that it was a rather modest improvement. Is it reviewed every five years? Is that how it works?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

When you say, “similarly”, do you mean that we can expect other public sector organisations to downsize as well?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Against those listed items that were purchased with the e-card, the report uses the expression “out of scope” quite a lot. Can you just elaborate on what that means? Does it mean that the things that Mr Simpson spoke about are still in scope, or are they out of scope? Are they out of scope full stop, out of scope for the e-card, or in scope?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

I will move things along now. I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I will go back to a couple of answers that Karen Watt gave. In particular, I think that you described how big changes had taken place with regard to the funding arrangements. However, when we took evidence from Derek Smeall of the college principals group, this is what he said about the new model of distribution:

“There is no new funding model: there have been adjustments to an existing funding model, and they have been very minor.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 30 November 2023; c 31.]

How do you answer that?

10:00  

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I am sorry, Mr Rennick, but I again want to pick you up on your choice of language. You described the issue as being about “current need” and “future need”, but the infrastructure plan talks about there being an “urgent need”. That sense of urgency was spelled out clearly to us by stakeholders in the sector, who told us that there is a huge maintenance backlog and that there are health and safety issues, not just with RAAC but more broadly. In addition, there are the net zero targets, which are an important part of the Scottish Government’s vision for the future. What is being done now, urgently, to address some of those challenges?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Do you have any sense of the timeline for that? When will a decision be taken about the extent to which that can be put in the hands of the autonomous bodies that we are talking about?

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I am not giving you ministerial direction or anything—I do not have that authority. I am just trying to get a sense of how long that process will take.

I will move things on by inviting Willie Coffey to ask some questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Scotland’s colleges 2023”

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Yes. Nice try, Willie.

I invite the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to put a final series of questions to the witnesses.