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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Thanks. Willie Coffey has some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

But if the audit committee is charged with responsibility for the effectiveness of the internal control environment, does that not suggest that it should be on top of that? It should be asking questions and seeking further information.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I am sure that we will pick up that sponsor division responsibility, because, in the words of your report, there were

“significant weaknesses in the governance and financial management arrangements”,

and that the commission fell “far short” in that regard. This committee does not often see a report from you that is as clear and as condemnatory as the one that we are discussing today.

I will move on to Colin Beattie.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has a final question.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

That is quite a shocking note to finish on. As a reminder, I would point out that the statutory duties of the organisation that we are talking about include ensuring that

“customer charges reflect the lowest reasonable overall cost for Scottish Water”

and that its job is to challenge Scottish Water

“to become more efficient and sustainable”.

An organisation with those responsibilities really ought to lead by example, and I am not sure that we have heard that it does.

I thank the Auditor General for the evidence that he has provided, and I thank Richard Smith and Carole Grant for their valuable input. Thank you for being resourceful in your very helpful answers—we will be following up on some things.

I now draw the public part of the committee’s work to a close and move us into private session.

10:34 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Our second and main agenda item is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 22 report on the Scottish Prison Service, which was released in December. I welcome our witnesses. We are joined this morning by the Auditor General, and alongside him is Michael Oliphant, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland, and Tommy Yule, who is a senior audit manager at Audit Scotland.

We have a large number of questions to ask you about this morning’s report but, before we get to those, I invite the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Richard Leonard

I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Colin, we are short of time. You have had about three last questions, so I will have to ask that we move on and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Great. That would be helpful, because it is a component part of this discussion.

The other thing that is not new—you have already alluded to it—is that Audit Scotland produced a section 22 report on the Scottish Prison Service back in September 2019. Our predecessor committee was so concerned, it is fair to say, about what that report said that it undertook its own inquiry and brought in its own witnesses to try to get to the bottom of things. When I read that report, which came out four years ago, it looks as though a lot of the issues that it covers are the same issues that we are discussing today. They remain, by and large, unresolved. One of the issues contained in the report is that, according to the then Auditor General, HMP Barlinnie

“presents the biggest risk of failure in the prison system”,

and the report warns that

“there is no clear contingency plan for accommodating the 1,460 prisoners”

that it then held. Has there been a contingency plan for HMP Barlinnie?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 1 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We have covered a lot of ground. We would like to have got to even more, but time has been against us. I thank the Auditor General for his evidence and Michael Oliphant and Tommy Yule for their contributions. They have been valuable in illuminating what is, for the committee, quite a serious section 22 report into the current state of the Scottish Prison Service.

With that, I draw the public part of our proceedings to a close. The committee will now move into private session.

11:13 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.