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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Wow.

11:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay, but you have said that, back in 2020, the hourly rate of pay for your officers—throughout today’s proceedings, you have called them “officers”, which conveys a certain level of status to them—was less than £10. You might be surprised, but I am not surprised, that people would leave in droves if they were given opportunities to find work that paid more than that, given the kind of job that this is.

I presume that, when you put in your tender document, it was based on a forecasted hourly rate of pay, which, at the time, I can only assume, was also less than £10 an hour.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

It has been a bone of contention, certainly in the past, that your rates of pay on the contract in England were more than your rates of pay on the contract in Scotland. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. That is fine.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

I think that Graham Simpson has some more questions in line with that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

No—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

But what is your view of the fact that we have been told that the only institutions that were considered for this course were Harvard, Stanford and Yale?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

You “have not come across” it. Okay, that is interesting.

As I understand it, mentoring programmes and such things are part of the fabric of personal development in the civil service. Is that right?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Maybe that was another facet of the business case that was drawn up by the chief operating officer.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you very much indeed. I am sorry that there has been an air of rushing in the session. As the deputy convener remarked, your report is comprehensive and has given us a lot of evidence to consider. We will also consider whether we might want to invite more witnesses to give us their views on your findings in the annual section 23 audit of the NHS.

Auditor General, thank you very much for your evidence. I also thank Cornilius Chikwama, Leigh Johnston and Martin McLauchlan.

11:39 Meeting continued in private until 11:53.