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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 July 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I invite the deputy convener to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

We are now in the final stretch of our evidence session, and I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Auditor General, will you comment on the fact that the senior finance person—the head of finance—does not sit at director level? There are four directors, but there is no director of finance. Is that unusual in an organisation such as this?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

The wider-scope audit report suggests that the lack of itemised receipts related to “business entertaining costs”. What constitutes such costs?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

The framework document, which was last reviewed in April 2022—in other words, at the start of the period—contains a section on gifts and hospitality, although I think that that relates to the board of directors rather than to staff. It covers the circumstances under which people need to record accepting or receiving gifts and so on; it does not cover giving gifts and hospitality. What is the policy on giving those versus receiving them? Were some of those expenses incurred by board members, or did the chief executive incur almost half of them, or more than that, while the rest were incurred by other members of staff?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Before we leave the question of governance, what role do you see for, and what part has been played by, the board? When I look at the audit and risk committee’s list of responsibilities, it includes

“the strategic processes for risk, control and governance ... adequacy of management response to issues identified by audit activity, including external audit”,

and

“the effectiveness of the internal control environment”.

Has it measured up to its responsibilities?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Is there a transparency issue here in relation to, first of all, the previous point about what contact was made between the executive directors, non-executive directors and the chair of the board, which the deputy convener referred to, and the Scottish Government? Is that in the public domain? Is it possible to understand what form that took?

Secondly, in quite a number of the answers to the deputy convener’s earlier questions about the role of the board and so on, you said that we do not know what the board knew when, but the board publishes minutes, does it not? Is there a transparency issue that the minutes of the board do not sufficiently represent what was discussed at board meetings?

Public Audit Committee

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the fifth meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee.

The first item on our agenda is to agree to take agenda items 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

We will want to go through the report in some detail but, first of all, I note that you mentioned towards the end of your remarks that the recommendations have been accepted and specific actions will be implemented. Can you give us an overview of those actions?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 8 February 2024

Richard Leonard

This section 22 report is based on a wider-scope audit of the year 2022-23. In paragraph 10, you capture some of the concerns that you have identified as

“widespread issues with expense claims”,

Including lack of “itemised receipts” and the purchase of alcohol “exceeding the approved rates”. Such matters are cultural and behavioural, so the other question that immediately comes to mind is whether they predate this year or whether what would seem to be sensible governance arrangements and expenses regimes were suddenly abandoned at the beginning of April 2022.