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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I have a final question before I bring Graham Simpson in. One of the vehicles for investment is taking out an equity stake—I think that that is one of the options that the bank has, is it not? Are there examples of that? When equity stakes have been taken out, is a nominated person from the investment bank on the board of that organisation?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

It is a very precise figure—92.3 per cent. When I look at the quantum of investments that have been awarded since the bank was established, I note the three biggest investments, at the maximum of £50 million. One went to North Star Shipping Renewables, which is based in Aberdeen—that is fair enough. However, £50 million went to the Ardersier port—to which you have referred already—which is owned by a venture capital company that is based in Houston, Texas. The third investment, in Gresham House Forestry Fund, has been quite controversial and has been raised in Parliament before. The fund is now owned by a private equity company that is based in 5th Avenue, New York.

Maybe this is just a fact of life, but it seems to me that quite a large amount of investment through decisions by the Scottish National Investment Bank has gone to big, private equity-owned international funds rather than to SMEs that are trying to grow their business in the terrain of the Scottish economy.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Thanks for clearing that up. I invite Stuart McMillan to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s performance audit of the Scottish National Investment Bank. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses. We are joined by the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle—good morning. Alongside the Auditor General, from Audit Scotland, are Cornilius Chikwama, audit director; Catherine Young, a senior manager; and Kirsty Ridd, an audit manager.

Before we get to our questions, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 17th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. Under agenda item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Can I follow on from that? At paragraph 91 of the report, you give a very precise figure. You say that

“92.3 per cent of ... direct investees”

are small and medium-sized enterprises. Whose figure is that, and how is it derived?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The starting point is that, in your report, you quote a figure that you say is an echo of a Scottish National Investment Bank figure, which shows that 92.3 per cent of investees are SMEs. I am challenging that as a likely reliable figure.

There is another point with regard to the Gresham House Forestry Fund. When the investment was first announced in August 2021, I went on to the fund’s website to look at how it positioned itself as a business and saw that it was, largely, selling forestry investment as a way of avoiding paying inheritance tax and capital gains tax. Is any kind of ethical filter applied to these investment decisions?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I think that probably quite a number of us might feel that an organisation whose raison d’être seems to be to help its clients to avoid paying tax should not necessarily be benefiting from public funding to aid its venture. I am not talking about individual directors’ conflicts of interest—I am talking about a conflict of interest between the organisation and its purpose and its resorting to the use of public funds.

Before I move on to something else, another point about the Gresham House Forestry Fund—which is of note, is it not?—is that the bank says that 60 per cent of its investments will be in Scotland. Presumably, therefore, I would deduce that at least 40 per cent are going to be investments elsewhere. I think that that means investments elsewhere in the UK, to be fair, but they are not going to be in Scotland. Is that not subject to some kind of evaluation when decisions have been made about where investments are being placed?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I am sorry, but this is work that the Scottish Government, using public money, has commissioned a private consultancy company to carry out. Why should we not at least know the scope of its work and its terms of reference?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, so you have not done that yet.

You pledged to establish a transparency assurance panel to review the sensitivity status of material that is recorded in SCAD’s register of commercial advice. Have you established the transparency assurance panel?