Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 November 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 3464 contributions

|

Public Audit Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 20th meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee.

The first item on our agenda is for Fulton MacGregor to declare any relevant interests to the committee. Fulton joins us online. Over to you, Fulton.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The principal item on our agenda is further consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 23 report “NHS in Scotland 2023”. In the interest of transparency, I refer members to my membership of two trade unions that organise workers who are employed in the national health service.

I welcome our witnesses this morning. We are joined by Caroline Lamb, who is the chief executive of NHS Scotland and the director general of health and social care for the Scottish Government; Richard McCallum, who is the director of health and social care finance, digital and governance for the Scottish Government; and John Burns, who is the chief operating officer of NHS Scotland.

The committee has got quite a number of questions to put to you, but, before we get to those, I invite Caroline Lamb to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I will ask one final question. Last year, we had a discussion about the national treatment centres, their costs, why they had gone over time—why they were being delayed—and so on. You wrote back, director general, on 22 July last year, explaining that the “original plan” was to open up six centres by 2021, at a cost of £200 million of public money. You also appended a table setting out details of seven centres that were yet to be completed, which had an estimated cost of £827 million. Why was there such a huge increase in the costs that were budgeted for the building of those treatment centres?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

But that would not be impossible, would it? Given that it has gone from £200 million to £827 million, we can easily see how it could continue to rise.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You are discussing “strategies” plural, but the concern expressed by the Auditor General was that there was “no single overall vision”. I know that, during the debate on his vision, the cabinet secretary told Parliament:

“I am not looking to publish a new strategy.”—[Official Report, 4 June 2024; c 91.]

Are we just going to keep going along with several “strategies” plural?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

One of the phrases that is used is about treating people as close to home as possible, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

I do not expect you to give me a comprehensive reply to this this morning, but who will be on the ministerial task force, the expert reference group and the stakeholder advisory group?

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Is there a patient voice in and among all that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We are coming towards the end of our session, but we want to ask a few questions about estate management and where we are on capital expenditure.

There is a pause on capital investment, is there not? Will you describe what that means for the overall state of the NHS estate? Secondly, will you answer with particular reference to where we are with the national treatment centres, which were proffered as part of the solution to some of the things that we have spoken about this morning?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

There is a considerable backlog of maintenance, as highlighted in the Audit Scotland report. What are the Scottish Government’s plans to address that?