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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

On the 2023 report, the Auditor General, in a fairly stark summary, said that there was

“no single overall vision for how health services will look in future.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 21 March 2024; c 36.]

When I raised that with the then First Minister at a meeting of the Conveners Group in the Parliament, he said:

“I respectfully disagree with the Auditor General on that point”.

Where do you stand on that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Finally, I will take you back to the cabinet secretary’s vision and therefore, I presume, to the Government’s vision. The cabinet secretary told Parliament that he had outlined his vision to Cabinet colleagues before he made his statement. He also spoke about the establishment of ministerial task forces, expert reference groups and stakeholder advisory groups. What are they going to do?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. I am not sure that I entirely understand that, but that is probably a reflection on me and not you, director general.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The deputy convener has questions on a number of areas.

10:00  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You mentioned general levels of inflation, which have been high in the past couple of years, although they have come down a bit more recently. However, we are talking about an increase of 400 per cent, and more, in the expected cost of the construction of seven of those national treatment centres, are we not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The downgrading of neonatal services at University hospital Wishaw means that people there are being told that they might have to travel to Aberdeen. How do you reconcile that with that goal?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Just to emphasise Graham Simpson’s point, he is asking questions about PFI contracts of varying value, one of which is coming to an end at the end of 2025, which is not that far away. We would expect you to have a bit more detail to furnish us with this morning.

The question that he asked about Wishaw general is pertinent because of the value of the contract, which is £100 million in capital value terms. I recognise that some of the other ones are quite small: one is due to expire at the end of 2029 and is valued at £2.7 million, which is probably small fry in the overall scheme of things. However, we would expect you to have a bit more detail to give us about a larger one such as a significant general hospital that is coming up to the end of its PFI term.

I will follow up another point that Graham Simpson made, which is about savings. Perhaps you can help me, because I do not quite understand why, when we see real-terms increases in the NHS Scotland budget year on year, territorial NHS boards are asked to come up with savings. Will you explain that to me?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

But does a territorial health board not have a budget for staffing?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

So what is the current estimate of costs for those seven treatment centres?