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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

It feels a little bit like you might be manipulating the figures, Mr Smith.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

It is pretty plain that no one wants a visit from you any time soon, is it not? Things have gone wrong if you are knocking on their door.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You have mentioned on the record your aspirations around where you want to be and by when. As Professor Alexander said, to some extent, our job is to challenge and scrutinise, and that is what we are trying to do this morning.

I will go to another area, which is the operating cost variances that we see in the report and accounts. Why, even though a substantial increase in budget for 2023-24 was sought in that budget—with regard to rent and rates, for example—do we see an underspend? Why, when a substantial increase in budget was sought this year in relation to travel and subsistence, do we see a significant underspend? Why, when a substantial increase was sought in relation to legal and professional fees, do we see a substantial underspend? Can you explain that?

11:00  

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

The variances do not just cover underspends but overspends as well. Things such as IT costs are significantly more than what was budgeted for. Again, Mr Dennis, I suspect that we will get into the murky world of accommodation and international accounting standards, but other accommodation costs—I am not entirely sure what that line covers—were 40 per cent above budget as well. From the point of view of challenge and scrutiny in this public forum, could you explain why there were substantial overspends in those areas?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You have a separate measure of audit quality, which involves your appointment of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales to carry out performance reviews on a sample of—in this case—eight audits. If I interpret the findings correctly, the ICAEW said that only four of the eight audits of which it carried out a performance review met the standard that was expected. Is that your reading of the findings? If so, what conclusions do you draw from that?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

I am not asking about year-by-year changes relating to the national fraud initiative, because those costs in your budget are entirely predictable. I am asking why you asked for a budget of a certain amount for legal and professional fees, for example, when you spent substantially less than that in that year. The issue is, in part, about transparency, but it is also about credibility when you come to us to ask for a budget this year.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning, everybody. On that last point, we have heard figures from 40 per cent up to 48 per cent or 49 per cent. What is your target? What kind of completion rates of audits were there before the pandemic, for example? You mentioned that some of this is about catching up, as the work was knocked off its path because of the pandemic and the very difficult circumstances that everybody was in at that point. What are your targets? What would you expect?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

Why are you so resistant to doing that? Over a year ago, you were sat there and you and I had an exchange about the Auditor General’s recommendation to produce annual reports that would give greater transparency and clarity about whether progress was being made. You said—rather dismissively, I think—that you were not really interested in what you described as “a dry annual report.” Why do you have such resistance to the idea of openly publishing an annual summary of progress being made or not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Richard Leonard

You understand why, to us as the Public Audit Committee, it is unsatisfactory that, in this year’s report, the Auditor General had to repeat a recommendation. On the recommendation to

“Publish annual progress updates on the reform of services”,

under the heading “Limited progress”, he said:

“We repeat the recommendation in this report.”

Reform is the watchword of the new Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, so why have you not come up with the standard of reporting that the Auditor General thinks is required?