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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 3464 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

It is useful that we have finished up on that point this morning, because I was going to ask a broader question that relates to it. A lot of the emphasis in the discussion that we have had this morning has been on individual citizens defrauding the state, but there are also instances of corporations potentially defrauding the state, whether in relation to personal protective equipment or something else.

When we previously took evidence on the national fraud initiative, in September 2022, we were told of instances where people had passed away in care homes but the council was not notified, so it continued to pay fees for those people. Is that still being monitored?

10:30  

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

I was going to say that we will draw proceedings to a close on that jolly note, but James Dornan has a final question to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed for providing us with evidence this morning. It has been a very useful session. We are legislators, and at some points we strayed into areas where legislation might need to be amended, so there are certain things that we will need to consider—as well as, perhaps, things that you will consider as a result of this morning’s session.

I thank you both for your time and contributions this morning. You have given us a few things to think about, and your evidence allows us to compare the exercise with the previous one, two years ago, and consider whether we want to suggest some areas that could be covered that are currently not, or some bodies that really ought to be part of the initiative but are currently not.

I now move the committee into private session.

10:35 Meeting continued in private until 11:25.  

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you for setting out that introductory statement and some of the main issues that are contained in the report. We are going to get into quite a bit more detail during the next hour or so. I begin by inviting James Dornan to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay.

In response to one of James Dornan’s questions, you talked about the reduction in the number of bodies involved from 132 to 110 as being partly a reflection of pension schemes not taking part or the classification of pension schemes being changed. The Strathclyde local government pension scheme, for example, is worth £28 billion—it is one of the top 10 schemes out of all the pension schemes across the UK. Incidentally, the university superannuation scheme comes top of that league, I think. Are you saying that the Strathclyde pension scheme was previously in the exercise and is no longer in the exercise?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

Who decided to call it the national fraud initiative?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

So that large municipal pension scheme is included in the exercise that you are carrying out—that is fine. Thanks, that is helpful. I invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you next.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

Do bodies undertake such a cost benefit assessment?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

James Dornan wants to come in on the blue badge issue.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2024”

Meeting date: 26 September 2024

Richard Leonard

I now ask the deputy convener to ask some questions.