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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 3214 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“General practice: Progress since the 2018 General Medical Services contract”

Meeting date: 14 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that outline. I will go straight to Graham Simpson, who will open the questions.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I am obviously interested in that aspect of reform as convener of the Public Audit Committee.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Last week, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary in Scotland talked to the committee about some collaborative work that he is doing with Audit Scotland, on a best value audit of Police Scotland, so there are good examples of such synergies.

Let me move from the existing landscape to the process. As I read it, you have a 13-step process in the ministerial control framework to assess whether a new body is warranted. The mantra underpinning that is that

“any new public body should only be set up as a last resort.”

What does that mean in practice?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

The framework was introduced exactly two years ago, in May 2023. In those two years, how many new public bodies have been created?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That would be helpful.

One of the steps—I think that it is step 11—refers to occasions on which ministerial written authority might be required. In other words, the civil service’s assessment is presumably that the proposal does not represent efficiency, effectiveness or economy, but, nonetheless, there is a political imperative to create the new body or position. Are there any examples of cases in which such authority has been required?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Are there not?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. So, you think that that is a robust system and you do not think that any body is in the wrong category for auditing purposes.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I know that Mr Macleod will be familiar with the recent incident involving the Water Industry Commission for Scotland. It is quite a small organisation, and clearly at arm’s length from Government, but it has been the subject of section 22 reports by Audit Scotland because of issues of governance, expenditure and so on. If an internal part of the Scottish Government had similar issues, how would they be addressed?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That is fine.

A theme that has been highlighted to us, especially by the SPCB-supported commissioners, is a feeling that the level of audit to which they are subject is overly burdensome and disproportionate to the size of their organisations and the functions that they perform. In asking this question, minister, I am looking not just at you but at your team. Have you picked up a similar feeling from the supported bodies for which the Scottish Government is responsible?