The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3996 contributions
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
We are just suggesting it. We do not know whether we will go down that route or whether someone else will, but we thought that it was worth airing it.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
Consent.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
Right. It goes above negligence, does it not? That goes back to some of the terminology. Ecocide means
“unlawful or wanton acts committed with knowledge that there is a substantial likelihood of severe and either widespread or long-term damage”.
That is the definition that is set out by the expert panel on the definition of ecocide. The definition also says:
“‘Wanton’ means with reckless disregard for damage, clearly in excess in relation to social and economic benefits anticipated. ‘Severe’ means damage which involves very serious adverse changes”.
I do not know how negligence fits into that. How would you prove that negligence was wanton? That is the issue here. Negligence can be wanton and reckless, but does it suggest a knowledge that what you are doing is causing harm?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
It is about proving it. If I may, I will bring the lawyer in on that.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
They would be working under the direction of the organisation, so I would not see any difference in that regard. Again, David Murdoch has the letter of the law, but an individual could be contracted to do something that causes wilful, wanton harm. The bill provides for the case where someone is
“acting as the employee or agent of another”.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
You say “proper”, by which you mean that the company is following the direction of the contracting company.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
No. They would be prosecuted under the 2014 act, which does not mention ecocide.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
I will bring in David Murdoch, because he is a lawyer.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
I do not know when stage 2 will be. Is it not the convener who decides that? You asked me whether I think that we have time to deal with all the unintended consequences. I do not know whether I can answer that.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 2 December 2025
Gillian Martin
It is not up to me to decide that. I will be here at stage 2, no matter what, with all my amendments, and I will work with any members who want to work with me on amendments to deal with unintended consequences.