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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 March 2026
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Displaying 3992 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Consent.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Right. It goes above negligence, does it not? That goes back to some of the terminology. Ecocide means

“unlawful or wanton acts committed with knowledge that there is a substantial likelihood of severe and either widespread or long-term damage”.

That is the definition that is set out by the expert panel on the definition of ecocide. The definition also says:

“‘Wanton’ means with reckless disregard for damage, clearly in excess in relation to social and economic benefits anticipated. ‘Severe’ means damage which involves very serious adverse changes”.

I do not know how negligence fits into that. How would you prove that negligence was wanton? That is the issue here. Negligence can be wanton and reckless, but does it suggest a knowledge that what you are doing is causing harm?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

It is about proving it. If I may, I will bring the lawyer in on that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

They would be working under the direction of the organisation, so I would not see any difference in that regard. Again, David Murdoch has the letter of the law, but an individual could be contracted to do something that causes wilful, wanton harm. The bill provides for the case where someone is

“acting as the employee or agent of another”.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

You say “proper”, by which you mean that the company is following the direction of the contracting company.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

No. They would be prosecuted under the 2014 act, which does not mention ecocide.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I will bring in David Murdoch, because he is a lawyer.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I do not know when stage 2 will be. Is it not the convener who decides that? You asked me whether I think that we have time to deal with all the unintended consequences. I do not know whether I can answer that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

It is not up to me to decide that. I will be here at stage 2, no matter what, with all my amendments, and I will work with any members who want to work with me on amendments to deal with unintended consequences.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

As I said, we already wanted to include in the bill a defence of acting under permit, and we also wanted to make sure that any of the regulatory bodies would be protected when working under licence or permit.

You make a very good point. The committee has received a significant volume of responses, which are comprehensive. We will look at those, and the planning minister will take a view, too.