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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 3268 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

ESS would not necessarily be investigating such a case—it would be looking at systemic issues that might have led to that case. You said in your description of that hypothetical situation that a case or an incident might point to systemic issues in respect of a public body not complying with environmental law. ESS can, of course, look into that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Again, that is all very hypothetical. We have processes and procedures in place that are tied up in environmental law, and there are certain procedures that public bodies have to comply with. To give an example off the top of my head, with regard to consents for developments there is a process that is informed by regulations, some of which sit at United Kingdom level and some of which sit with the Scottish Parliament. Obviously, those regulations would need to change to enable what you are talking about. The issue is being actively looked at as potential developments change—in fact, there is a consultation going on at the moment on consents for energy. There is a constant review. The process that I just mentioned involves a joint consultation between the Scottish Government and the UK Government, because a lot of the regulations exist in the UK space. Whether a process is adequate at any given moment can change.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

I will not go into the detail of specific court cases but, obviously, decisions that are made in courts could prompt Governments to consider their processes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Absolutely.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

It is important to mention that the human rights bill would not have included absolutely everything that would have got us to compliance with Aarhus. Access to justice has a financial aspect. Having access to a court involves not just the existence of that court or process but the costs that are associated with going through that process. That is why Siobhian Brown prioritised the caps to the expenses that are associated with that, which you have mentioned as a crucial step in access to justice.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

I am sorry, but may I finish my point, Ms Lennon?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

I will try to.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Could you?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

Siobhian Brown has said that we are actively putting things in place to comply with the convention. As I said, we are not compelled to sign up to the convention, because we are not an independent state and we are not a member of the EU. However, Monica Lennon is absolutely right that we want to keep pace with standards in the EU, including environmental standards, but, in rights terms—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Environmental Governance

Meeting date: 10 December 2024

Gillian Martin

The concerns in relation to Scotland were mainly around cost caps. I have outlined how Siobhian Brown has introduced measures to put cost caps in place, because that was the biggest barrier to justice in this area. That has already been done in the areas that I have outlined in order to protect people from runaway legal costs. As I said, there is also the work that she is doing on access to legal aid, which I am hopeful will further enhance that work.