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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 3584 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I had discussions with Ms Lennon about that. It is important to ensure that the offence of ecocide is additional to—a step up from—what is already there. We need to consider the definition of “significant environmental harm” in section 40 of the Regulatory Reform (Scotland) Act 2014, the definition of “severe environmental harm” in the bill and the difference between those two things. It is certainly the case that enough work has been done by the campaign to define what ecocide is.

Could we have gone down the route of reforming and making amendments to the 2014 act? Yes, we could have done that, but we are where we are. Ms Lennon has progressed her bill, which is an alternative vehicle for introducing the offence of ecocide. The phrase “six and a half a dozen” comes to mind. We could reform the Regulatory Reform (Scotland) Act 2014 to include the offence of ecocide and to make it strong, but Ms Lennon has progressed her bill, and we have an opportunity to establish a bespoke offence of ecocide. I want to ensure that that dovetails with the 2014 act provisions and provides additionality.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Let me come to some of the provisions. I will explain this properly.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I hope that it will be extremely rare.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Bear in mind that, at the moment, we are simply airing the idea. We have not decided what our approach will be.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

No. I think that vicarious liability is important, for the reasons that I set out to Sarah Boyack, so there must be provision to ensure that the scenario that you have just outlined, where, in effect, you have a fall guy, cannot happen. It cannot be the case that a junior member of an organisation would be prosecuted for something that was actually the intent of the organisation, so there must be vicarious liability provision.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I think that you would have to prove that that company went rogue, so to speak, which I suppose is what you are describing. You would have to prove that a contractor was doing that off its own bat, without the instruction of the contracting company. Who is responsible for the offence needs to be provable.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, that would be the case if a contractor came in and cut corners without the express direction or knowledge of the contracting organisation. In that case, it would not just be ecocide that it was taken to court for; it would properly also be taken to court by the company that contracted it.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

If I may just give a personal opinion, if anyone did not come to work in Scotland because we had an offence of ecocide, what would that say about the company? We want all companies to act responsibly. If environmental law exists to prevent serious harm to the environment, whether under the 2014 act or an ecocide act, what would it say about a company that it would not come to do business somewhere because of that law?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

There would be such a high bar. The big debate that we are having is whether the bill’s provisions are sufficiently additional to those that already exist in Scotland. I would be very wary of a company that said that it would not work in Scotland because we had an ecocide law.