The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3697 contributions
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
I accept that we all have the benefit of hindsight now, but given the urgency of the situation, other universities seem to have been a bit quicker at making people redundant, even though they have been criticised for doing so. You have made the point that all universities have been facing these challenges, and I accept that, too, but Dundee seems to have been very slow compared to others in making redundancies.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
Finally, covenants have been mentioned a lot, and Professor Gillies has put a big emphasis on them. I wonder how you thought of covenants. When a lot of businesses and organisations sign up to a loan agreement with a bank, they do not read all the small print, which is where the covenants are. It is like when most of us buy an insurance policy; we do not read the small print and, lo and behold, sometimes it comes back to bite us. Is that kind of the way that you and others approached the covenants?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
Yes, but you did not see them first, or discuss them first.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
The three whom we had yesterday in particular—the chief operating officer, the chair of court and the finance director. Were they all just a little bit beyond their ability?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
The auditors gave you a completely clean bill of health for the July 2023 accounts. Neither the external auditors—nor, from what we can gather, the internal auditors—flagged up any major issues. We are talking about two of the four largest accountancy firms in the world, and I think that you were paying them quite a lot of money, so we would expect quite a lot of competence. Would your feeling now be that the auditors should have flagged things up a bit earlier?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
They did not.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
I am just following on from what colleagues have already asked about, but I note that Professor Gillies makes the point that
“UEG, Court and their committees and groups should have been aware of the worsening financial situation as early as December 2023”.
You have indicated that there were certainly problems at that point. However, in answer to Mr FitzPatrick, you said that there needed to be savings in 2024-25. If the problems became obvious as early as December 2023, why were cuts not made to expenditure in 2023-24?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 26 June 2025
John Mason
You have also accepted that the cash position drifted a bit and that the cash balance went down quite dramatically. We saw a lot of new buildings when we visited last summer. Was it too ambitious to go ahead with some of that capital expenditure? Would it have been better not to spend on building some of those buildings?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
John Mason
Mr Fotheringham, I understand that you and I are both members of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland, so I will focus on the finances.
Can you explain the system with the management accounts? It appears that some of the accounts did not get to the court in a timely fashion. I assume that the accounts were prepared by relatively junior staff. Did they come to you after that?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
John Mason
That is another of the large four firms.
We have already had a little bit of talk about the slightly hostile environment and the fact that the principal was quite a strong personality, let us say. I wonder whether that is something that the internal auditors might have flagged up. Would you expect them to do that?