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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 October 2025
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Displaying 3048 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Okay. We will chase up other people on that point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Mr Forde and Ms Pasternak, you have said more about profit, so I will come to you next. Mr Hogg made a good point about the need to have a clear definition of profit, because the language in the bill seems vague. Section 8 says that regulations

“may specify … how the level of profit … is to be determined”.

Goodness knows that accountants have been arguing over what profit is for hundreds of years, so it seems unlikely that the Scottish Government is going to come up with a definition in 10 minutes.

Can either of you give me your thoughts about profit? Should there be any profit? Should we eliminate profit, or are we talking about excessive profit or something else?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Do you accept that it is hard to get the sort of balance that you are describing into legislation? On the one hand, we want to give organisations freedom to invest where the need is, but, on the other hand, we do not want to let them make too much profit.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

When you say “going to charities”, do you mean going to chief executives?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

I am sorry to interrupt you with a question that I also asked the previous panel. Is there evidence about whether care is better in the charity sector or in the for-profit sector?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

I note that Ms Derrick has not responded so far. Did you want to come in on any of this?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

I take your point about providing the best outcomes for children, and you said in answer to a previous question that the process should not be resource led, but do you accept that we have to live within a budget?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

Because your submission does not say. It gives the average and the variance, but it does not actually say what you want the payment to be.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

John Mason

That was going to be my next question—what would you like the figure to be? It is going up to £7.4 million in 2029-30. Should it be double that, or half again? Do you have any idea?