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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 2594 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

I will press you on that and will use a different example. Income tax in this country is horribly complicated and the intention has been to make it fairer, so we have many little exceptions, reliefs and all the rest of it. Was it intended that the fiscal framework would make arrangements fair, which is why we are linked to this and to that? We have ended up with something that we struggle to understand and which the public probably do not have much chance with.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

I am up for that. Does Mr Eiser want to respond? I am sorry not to have given you a chance yet.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

Does COSLA or CIPFA have any comments on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

I will build on what Liz Smith and Daniel Johnson said about the fiscal framework. Is there a fundamental problem? The point has been made that we compare ourselves with the rest of the UK and, if we cannot grow as fast as the rest of the UK, we are disadvantaged. The rest of the UK is dominated by London and the south-east. The figures seem to show that we can compete well with the midlands, the north-west and any other part of the UK, such as Wales or Northern Ireland, but that we struggle to compete with London and the south-east. Is that a fundamental problem that we need to tackle?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

The point has been made that we need more taxpayers—therefore, more people. We are not having enough kids, so is the only answer to have more immigration?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

I do not know whether Ms Murray wants to say anything on that. I also have a question specifically for her. We talked earlier about how complicated the fiscal framework is. Is it inevitable that it would be more unfair if we made it simpler? Are we balancing fairness against complexity, or is that not a fair thing to say?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

You have stressed that point quite a lot, so I take that on board.

I have a final question, which is on a completely different subject. One of the submissions—I think that it was the Royal Society of Edinburgh’s paper—mentioned inflation. Is that something that we should be worried about, or will it just go back to 2 per cent, so we will be okay?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

I will move on to another topic. There is a theme in your written submission about flexibility, which has already been mentioned. The problem for the Scottish Parliament is that, if there is flexibility and, say, Orkney does one thing and Glasgow does something else, we are immediately accused of a postcode lottery, even though it is local decision making. Can you comment on that or give us advice on how we tackle that problem?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

My next question is on the fiscal framework and may be for Mr Russell. When I was a councillor, we had the prudential framework for borrowing, which I thought was a good idea. Councils could borrow what they could afford, and there was no arbitrary limit. Does that still work for local authorities? Could it also work at the Scottish level?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

John Mason

I am interested in paragraph 22 of the COSLA-CIPFA paper, which says that the Scottish child payment

“is an example of an intervention that addresses a symptom of poverty but not the cause.”

There has been a lot of support for the Scottish child payment, as well as for doubling or quadrupling it. If you are saying that we could use that money better, how do you think that we could do so?