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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 2594 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

I will pursue that with someone else. I will find the right person.

There have been a lot of arguments against using SIMD as a measure. I quite like it because it is clear cut—you can draw a line on a map. I take other members’ points that there are poorer people who are not in the SIMD20 areas and there are richer people who are, but the measure is quite clear cut. It keeps a focus on the wider areas, such as my constituency in the east end of Glasgow, where it is clearly not just one or two families who are in deprivation; it is a lot of people. As has often been said, a poorer household will do better in a better-off area than a poorer household that is surrounded by other poorer households.

Should we continue to use SIMD but add in other factors as well? I think that that is where the commissioner was going last week—that we should still use SIMD as a headline measure but bring in more factors.

11:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

Pam Duncan-Glancy has covered quite a lot of what I was going to ask about.

In the SFC written submission, you say that you “target investment”; indeed, you have touched on some of that already. You have also mentioned the two universities that I was going to mention—Glasgow Caledonian University and the University of the West of Scotland. The fact is that some universities—in the north-east, for example—do not have so many SIMD20 areas to take into account, and we have heard evidence that the heavy lifting is being done by other universities, especially those around Glasgow. Do you think that the balance is correct? You said that there is extra funding, but the core funding is still the same for each place, wherever the university is, is it not?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

Fine—I will let you off just now, but I want to pursue the issue, because I have been thinking about it. Thank you very much.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

Another factor came up in our discussion with the Scottish Funding Council: just because of the volume of poorer households in a place such as Glasgow, we find that Glasgow Caledonian University and the University of the West of Scotland are doing a lot of the heavy lifting. Is it your view that they are getting enough support to do that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

We have had a discussion about other measures, and my colleagues might want to go into that space. I assume that you are working on SIMD20 at the moment, but are you looking more widely?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

Are you picking up that colleges and universities are struggling to do that because of financial pressures? We have had evidence that they would like to do more of that kind of thing, but that they just do not have the finances, partly because the fees have not gone up over the years.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

On a slightly different angle, Miles Briggs referred to the session that we had on Monday evening, with two groups. I was in a different group to Miles; our group was with ethnic minority young people, discussing how they had got on in getting to university. One of the themes that arose was the complex landscape. They had struggled to get information about getting to university. That is partly an issue because they arrived during their secondary schooling—they were not at their school from secondary 1 all the way through. Some of them did not know that they could go to university via college; they thought that they just had to have multiple highers to get there. Guidance teachers might not have been aware of graduate apprenticeships. The students we met were very able, and some of them had worked out what to do and then told their guidance teachers.

Do you have any thoughts on that? Is that part of the problem?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

Which Government minister should I put that question to?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

When it comes to targeting, do you take into account whether a university has deeper pockets, or are you purely following the student so that, if the student needs £X in support, it does not matter which university they go to? Glasgow and Edinburgh are very wealthy universities, but Glasgow Caledonian and others are not. Is that a factor when you fund?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Widening Access to Higher Education

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

John Mason

Colleagues might want to return to that.

I want to raise one other area, which is completely different. If you cannot answer this, do not. On Monday evening, we met some young people from different backgrounds who shared their experiences, off the record. One issue that we picked up from some of the ethnic minority young people was that they were not aware of all the different options. They found the whole space to be quite complicated. They knew that if they got lots of highers, they could go from school straight to university, but some did not know that they could go to college first and then to university, or they did not know about the graduate apprenticeship programme. Does the SFC have any involvement in that, or is that not in your neck of the woods?

09:30