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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 July 2025
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Displaying 2855 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

Your submission mentions council tax, which has been reviewed but has not been changed for a long time. Are you a bit critical that we have not changed or replaced it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

The main reason that is given for council tax not having been replaced is that nobody can agree on what should replace it. Will you go into what a good property tax or a good land tax would be?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

I did not hear that; I will read it afterwards.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

Does anyone else want to come in on that question? No. I realise that it is a sensitive issue.

We have already mentioned the interaction between income tax and corporation tax and the idea that people might incorporate. In the Chartered Institute of Taxation’s submission, Charlotte Barbour, you also mention various other taxes such as capital gains tax and national insurance. There is a whole package in there. If more of those taxes were to be devolved, we could presumably come up with a more joined-up system. I read a Reform Scotland paper about tax—published in June, I think—that was quite interesting. Is it the Chartered Institute’s argument that the position should be a bit more neutral, so that, if somebody incorporated, that should not make any difference? For example, they might put their profits into shares, which are subject to capital gains tax, but all the taxes on any kind of income could be set at the same rate—I think that some countries do that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

No—absolutely. I will raise another point that may be linked. The David Hume Institute talks about

“the size of the envelope”

and

“growing the tax base”

Are you also thinking widely? Do you mean income-based taxes, land-based taxes or other taxes?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

Will you expand on that a bit more? When you refer to the size of the envelope, what is the envelope?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

I will come to Ms Flanagan in a moment, but can I press you on that? There is a political angle as well as the technical angle, is there not? If you are in South Lanarkshire Council and, across the road, North Lanarkshire Council is doing something differently, you and your colleagues come under pressure. I am sorry—you are from Dumfries and Galloway Council; that was just an example. A council will come under pressure when people say that the neighbouring council is doing so much more—it is collecting the bins more often and all that kind of thing. Do you feel under pressure to be consistent with other councils?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

I will leave it at that, although colleagues might want to follow up. It would be helpful to get that email.

Auditor General, in your submission, you talk about the fiscal framework being

“intended to incentivise the Scottish Government”

You say that, when the Scottish economy is doing well, tax revenues increase and that, when it is not doing so well, revenues do not increase. Would you be prepared to say that the fiscal framework is weighted against Scotland at the moment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

I do not think that you will find anybody here who is going to argue with that—I am certainly not. The point has been made, and I think that it is made in your submission, that we have tended to give the NHS increases that are higher than inflation, or at least bigger increases than we have given to local government. Those two areas are the two main parts of our budget. I asked the previous panel this question, so I might as well put it to you as well. Have we been too generous to the NHS? Should we try to give the same increases to the NHS and local government?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 20 September 2022

John Mason

Another choice that we have to make concerns the question of ring fencing and whether we should give more money to local government—or any other sector, for that matter. We immediately get accused of creating a postcode lottery if Aberdeen City Council is spending more on education, whereas South Lanarkshire Council is spending more on social care, refuse or something else. Do you have any suggestions about how we can get round that and strike the right balance?