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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 2881 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

None of it—so that £12 million has come entirely from the NHS budget.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

Although a military secret would, I presume, still not be revealed under a public inquiry, would it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

Ms Morgan, given what you have said, do you think that the public have become less tolerant over the decades? Is it the case that, whereas, in the past, we just accepted that a mistake had been made, nowadays, there is more of a desire to blame somebody, to get revenge or to dig into things more?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

That goes back to the terms of reference that are set at the beginning, does it not?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

Whereas in the NHS, for example, a surgeon simply has to work with the equipment and the staff that are available to them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

I would like to ask you about the figures that you quoted in your submission. You said that it has cost NSS £3.1 million to respond various inquiries since 2021-22. Later in your submission, you mentioned a figure of £9 million for legal services. Is the £9 million the amount that you were refunded and the £3 million the amount that you were not refunded? Could you explain that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 3 June 2025

John Mason

That is fair.

One of the things that the 2005 act says—in section 17, I think—is that the judge or whoever is leading the inquiry must avoid “unnecessary cost”.

I will start with Ms Morgan this time. You have been involved in a few inquiries. Do you have a view on that issue? Do you think that public inquiries are avoiding unnecessary costs, or do you think that unnecessary costs are being incurred?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

John Mason

I take the point in your previous argument that, if it was, say, a one-off cost of £27 million or £30 million or thereabouts, it would be a one-off cost, and we could look at that spread over the years. The other argument is that £27 million just to rearrange the furniture is quite a lot of money, and that would be a factor in my deciding whether I support the bill at stage 1. I opposed Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill, on what was basically the same amount of money—£30 million.

To go into some of the detail of that, I note that the largest part seems to be pension. My understanding is that TUPE—the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations—protects staff who are transferring to another organisation so that they do not lose out, but the argument here seems to be that the staff moving should get a much better pension. I do not think that TUPE insists on them having a much better pension; it insists on them not losing out. In fact, pensions under TUPE is a bit of a grey area.

Has the Government gone through all the options? Does it have to be under TUPE? Do they have to move into the same pension fund?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

John Mason

That suggests that the Government would be involved and that it might put a cap on the one-off cost or the transfer cost.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

John Mason

Again, I am on board for some of those things. Every witness at the Finance and Public Administration Committee tells us that, if we spend £1 now, we will save £10 in 10 years’ time. That is all very well, but we have to find the £1 today, and you are asking us to find maybe £30 million.

You said that it is not for us to know at this stage, but I disagree. The financial memorandum is meant to provide the best estimate, but you are saying that it is not for us to know at this stage. Some of the preparatory work is about whether the SFC will have one scheme or two schemes, and we know that some staff will definitely transfer if the change goes ahead. I accept that we do not know about some areas, but I think that more work could have been done before we got to this stage.

I will move on to some other points. Earlier, financial sustainability was mentioned, as well as whether the SFC will be able to require data. It was suggested that the SFC might be able to require data in the future.

Why did the SFC not pick up the problems at Dundee university and perhaps those at other universities? Was it because it did not have the powers or because it was not using the powers that it had?