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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 September 2025
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Displaying 2972 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

Deputy First Minister, I take your point that we will have another session on the fiscal framework, but if you do not mind, I want to ask you a few questions about it. If you want to come back to us at a later point, that would be okay.

We were all a bit surprised about how quick the whole process was. We had thought that the previous report would have been published, that there would have been outlines for a review and that it would have gone backwards and forwards. I was certainly caught by surprise when it was all agreed. I remember that, the previous time, it was John Swinney who was negotiating. The draft framework was put to Parliament and the Conservatives said that we should accept a poor deal, but John Swinney carried on arguing and we ended up with a better deal. Can you explain the timeline of what happened?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

That has worried the committee previously, and I think that we will look at that. Are there any updates that you can give? Can you say anything about timelines?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

I will move on to one or two other points. The committee had a useful away day in Largs, when we listened to local people’s ideas about the budget. Everyone accepted the fact that we face difficult financial times. There was a degree of openness—in the group that I was in, certainly—to a little more means testing and a little less in the way of universal benefits. When we pressed people, we found that they were not suggesting means testing to access the NHS or schools. What is your thinking and that of the Government on how we can get the balance there? Currently, some things are means tested, and some things are universal. How do we get the balance right on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

Absolutely. That is right.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

I will press you on that point. You say that the borrowing capacity has increased, which it has, but we thought that we were going to have a £700 million adjustment. Thankfully, we will not have a £700 million adjustment, but if we had done, the new borrowing limit would not have covered it. Is that correct?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 3 October 2023

John Mason

I certainly accept that that is positive, but it still worries me that certain things were not on the table and that a wider review was not on the table. I feel that there is a fundamental problem, even with the index per capita method. Our population is struggling because Westminster will not allow extra immigration into Scotland. We compete pretty well with all the regions of England apart from London and the south-east. Earlier, you said that, when it comes to inward investment, we are second only to London and the south-east. However, we are always second to London and the south-east. Therefore, it seems to me that, when we compare our economic growth with England’s, we are comparing ourselves with a country that is dominated by London and the south-east. Call me pessimistic, but I struggle to see how we will ever be able to compete with them, so we will always be financially disadvantaged.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

John Mason

I will start with hospitality. Ms Maclean indicated that the sector is struggling. Does the situation vary geographically? It seems to me that, in Edinburgh, hotel prices are quite high, which indicates that there is a lot of demand. Last September, I could fairly easily get a hotel for a night for less than £100. I could not find one this September for less than £100, and some of them are not fancy hotels. Is the situation patchy around the country? I presume that we do not need to support hotels in Edinburgh.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

John Mason

I have just booked in Aberdeen at £60.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Sustainability of Scotland’s Finances

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

John Mason

That is good.

The committee also looks at public sector reform. It has been suggested that there are too many public bodies and that we have a cluttered landscape. Are there too many public bodies? Is the landscape too cluttered? I put that to each of you. Obviously, your answers will reflect the sectors that you are representing.