Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 3214 contributions

|

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

On a more cheerful note, I agree with materiality, which I think is a good thing. I may be in a minority on the committee in that regard—I do not know about that.

Mr McGillivray suggested that internal figures are rounded, but I would be inclined to round external figures, too. I cannot remember the exact figures, but some of them go down to the exact pound, when, as you said, it is not meaningful to go down to the exact pound. It is totally meaningless to talk about whether something will cost £354 or £353 in 10 years’ time, and I think that it gives the wrong impression. It gives people the impression that there is a high degree of accuracy, which, frankly, is unrealistic. That is my personal opinion—take it or leave it.

I do not want to repeat what colleagues have said, but I am interested to find out how we got to this point, because, in one sense, I think that it is a one-off. I do not remember a financial memorandum ever coming to us in relation to which there seems to be such a gap between what one of the main players—Police Scotland—thought and what the Government thought, and I am intrigued as to how that happened. Why did Police Scotland not see the bill in a fairly complete stage in order to understand what the requirements were?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

I will follow up on what Adam said. We sometimes struggle a bit to measure things, but uptake of pension credit is a long-running problem—it was a problem when I was in Westminster. That is something that we could measure.

You said that the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales has been around since 2006, and Northern Ireland’s has been around since 2011. I am not expecting an answer right now, but could you come back to us with figures to show whether pension credit uptake has improved in Wales and Northern Ireland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

I do not mean to interrupt you, but, given that you are clearly a strong voice and advocate for those people, why do they need a commissioner, too?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

On that point, and based on what Craig Dalzell said, is it important that the words are in a minister’s title?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

I will follow on from what Jo McGilvray said. The Carnegie UK submission made the point that a commissioner can make “cost savings”. I want to press you on that. How quickly could that be done? Is it inevitable that the costs will be in year 1 and the savings will be in year 25?

I will say my bit before you come in. Should that be one of the measures? When a commissioner meets a parliamentary committee—whichever committee it is—should that committee ask the commissioner whether their work has produced savings or whatever?

I initially put my hand up to speak in response to some of the things that Rob Holland had said, but Ross Greer asked him about some of those points. The National Autistic Society Scotland submission talks about “improved representation and visibility”. That is fine if there are seven commissioners, but—to go back to Ross Greer’s point—what if we have dozens? If there are 100 commissioners, no one will have much visibility. I realise that you are fighting your own angle, but could you take an overall approach and look at the bigger picture? You might get visibility for a few years with a commissioner, until more commissioners come along.

You also talk in your submission about leveraging finance. Can you tell us what you mean by that? Does that mean that the money would come from other vulnerable groups who did not have a commissioner, or from higher taxation? Where would the money come from?

Perhaps Jo McGilvray can go first.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

Is it fair to say that training is always a bit of a vague thing? You could ask whether any of the seven members of the committee is properly trained, but there is no right answer to that, because we could all get more training. I do not know for how many days a year the police train their officers, but I presume that they prioritise the most important things in that training, as old laws such as the blasphemy law get dropped and new laws come in.

I am also a bit surprised that the police have asked for £X and are getting it. Could they not be pushed to do some of the training within the existing time?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

But so do people with autism and so do children.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

Is “equalities” not a better overall term?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

Let me press you a little on that. Is it inevitable that, when a commissioner is created, the first thing that they will ask for is more money for their sector, or can a commissioner look at the money that is being spent and say, “You could spend that same money better”?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

John Mason

I should have declared that I am one of them.