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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 3214 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

I will continue on the theme of representation and how people’s voices are heard. In the material that we have received, we have the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland saying that children should be more involved, the Educational Institute of Scotland saying that there should be a majority of teachers and lecturers on some of the bodies, and employers saying that they want to be involved. It just seems endless. You must have had some experience of that when you were doing your work and listening to people. Before we discuss what is going to happen, will you tell us a little about how you managed to listen to all those voices?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

We have heard in evidence that other countries have a variety of awarding bodies, whereas in Scotland we have only one. I think that that point came from the Stirling centre for research into curriculum making. Professor Priestley, can you confirm first of all whether that is the same thing as the Stirling network for curriculum studies? Are both of them you?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

Perhaps I can put a counterargument. Do you not think that pupils, families, schools and employers would be confused if we had a lot more qualifications out there?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

I will not continue that debate with you, but I still have to wonder. It is one thing for Glasgow university to be able to assess qualifications; it is quite another for me to do so, as an employer with three staff. I find it confusing as it is.

Professor Donaldson, do you have any thoughts in this space?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

Can you not have dividing walls within organisations? I am on the Finance and Public Administration Committee, too, and we are very worried about the number of public bodies that there are. We are recommending a stop on new commissioners and all that kind of stuff. I would be very reluctant to have another body.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

Mr Black, do you have anything to add?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

That was helpful. Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

I suppose that that goes back to the culture, which Pam Duncan-Glancy asked about. Is that what we are really looking for, rather than legislation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

The Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland has its own particular angle on things, but it says that the proposals

“simply slot children into an adult-centred governance structure in a way which is tokenistic”,

rather than having children at the centre of things. How do you respond to that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 September 2024

John Mason

You used the phrase “open system”. That sounds more like a description of an attitude or an ethos for the organisations than something that we would put in legislation, because it is quite difficult to say, “There will be an open system.” For example, the Royal Scottish Geographical Society talks about taking on board the views of different groups. That suggests that the groups would not necessarily be on the board or the committee, but there would be a listening attitude.