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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 December 2025
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Displaying 3369 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 26 November 2024

John Mason

That is helpful. The approach means that we treat borrowing in the same way whether it is for a physical asset, such as a new bridge, or just day-to-day expenditure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 26 November 2024

John Mason

From your point of view, it makes a difference, obviously, because one of those items will create more of a return in the longer term, even though—I agree—it is not a definite, fixed economic return. Should we be thinking of those two kinds of debt separately?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 26 November 2024

John Mason

That is helpful. On a different subject, I am still trying to get my head around the letters, so could you explain PSNFL—public sector net financial liabilities—to me? I get that, if I was borrowing through a mortgage, you would look at my asset—my house—and the two would go together. In a sense, it makes sense to include financial assets, but physical assets are not included. I would have thought that borrowing money to build a road, a house or a school would be slightly different from borrowing to pay for teachers and nurses or other resource spending. Will you explain the logic of why that measure is used?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 26 November 2024

John Mason

I appreciate it that you have unpacked that for me. You mentioned three years and five years. I wonder whether you have an opinion on that. We are to have a spending review, which is for three years, as I understand it, although there is also the five-year forecast period. Is there a right length of time for those things? Three years is quite short. Should the spending review be for longer?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

John Mason

That is very kind, convener.

Along with Ross Greer, I have the privilege of being on the Education, Children and Young People Committee, so we have had a lot more background on the bill. I will press you a little more on capital spending, which the convener asked about. The education committee got the impression that some outdoor centres are really struggling and people’s expectations of them are rising. Some of the buildings were built in 1939—as it happens, I have stayed in some of those.

The current model seems to be that schools pay for only the running costs and that the capital funding for outdoor centres has to come from other sources. The centres are going around to trusts to beg for money and are fundraising and doing different things. I get the impression that some of the centres seem to be a little more successful than others, but that is to be expected. The suggestion was made that if an outdoor centre hits a major financial challenge, it may well close. The current funding model is working to an extent, but not hugely, and the councils have largely closed their centres. Surely, going forward, the model cannot continue, and some new money must come in on the capital side?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

John Mason

You said that you want to be inclusive, and we all agree with that. On your previous point, we all probably agree with the concept. The question is whether we support the bill, largely because of the cost.

Centres in Scotland can cope with those with additional support needs to a certain extent, but there is no one centre that can cope with some of the neediest children. Would the plan be that, in the short term, those children would go to England?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

John Mason

Would the alternative be to set up a fund of perhaps £10 million that was specifically for schools, children or outdoor centres to apply for to cover their costs?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

John Mason

I am sure that we all agree with that.

How flexible would the funding be? Would it be available for things other than going to outdoor centres? For example, some children in the Highlands and Islands are very used to being outside because that is their normal life, so they would like to come to Glasgow and visit museums and so on. It has also been suggested elsewhere that the money could subsidise overseas trips. How flexible is the whole thing?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

John Mason

Finally, I will press you again on the point raised by Ross Greer and others about teachers’ attitudes. At the moment, teachers’ involvement in residential outdoor education is voluntary. Although I have not done any studies on this, I imagine that younger or single teachers will be more enthusiastic about it and more able to take part.

The NASUWT told the Education, Children and Young People Committee that it already advises its members not to take part in such trips because that is not part of their contract, but if every kid has to go, or must be given the opportunity to go, do you not think that there will be more pressure on teachers to go on such trips and that they will therefore want to be recompensed for that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Revenue Scotland

Meeting date: 19 November 2024

John Mason

Is that above last year’s level?