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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 2594 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Okay—thanks.

Professor Seaton, you said that simplifying the landscape is a good thing, and I am certainly in favour of that. Are there risks to doing that? The SFC’s staff numbers will grow dramatically. Will it be hard for it to get right the balance between the university-college side and the apprenticeship side?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

From some of the evidence that we have had, we get the impression that the relationship between Skills Development Scotland and business and industry has been quite good, but there is some nervousness in some circles that that will be disrupted. For example, the UK Fashion and Textile Association said:

“Historically, the SFC has been more focused around research and academia but if also taking over from SDS they need to hit the ground running in terms of being employer facing.”

Is there a concern that the SFC will struggle to have as good a relationship with industry as SDS has had?

Either of the witnesses can answer that.

09:30  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

On the risk-based approach, it is common for auditors in business and in all sorts of areas of life to focus more on risky subjects than on less risky ones. For starters, would the member not accept that that is quite a good principle? Secondly, can he tell us how many inspections there are at the moment, how many there would be under his plan and whether there is any costing of that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Okay.

As I understand it, a lot of what you have been doing falls under your normal guidance practice, some of which will be put into legislation in future. Will that make any difference, or is it just a case of formalising what is already happening?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Ms Reid, are you as relaxed about that as Mr Seaton?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

I want to pursue the subject of universities a little more. You talked about having discussions with universities, and you also talked about scrutiny. The words “discussions” and “scrutiny” strike me as being slightly different. Discussions involve sitting around the table and having a chat about things, whereas scrutiny is a much more proactive process that involves going into places and looking at things. Will you say a bit more about your present relationship with universities and colleges and whether you think that that might change in future?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Would the counter argument not be that, if it is all under one umbrella, and we have, for example, young people doing university courses that do not lead anywhere, the SFC would have the ability to switch some of the money into apprenticeships? In that way, it could be a better thing for apprentices.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

Okay. Ms Topley, I realise that I have not asked you any questions. Do you want to comment on that? Would that give us a more joined-up approach?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

I will leave that for my colleagues on the finance committee to dig into.

My next question is for all of you. One argument in favour of the bill is that it would simplify things by putting everything under one umbrella, which might help us to align the tertiary education system with the national economic and social goals. The need for investment in the highlands has been mentioned. This is a general question, but would simplifying things mean that we could take a much more joined-up approach that could be tied in with the national economic and social goals, the national performance framework and all those things? Would that be easier?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

John Mason

If someone had worked for 10 years in SDS, would that be treated as if they had worked for the Funding Council for 10 years?