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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 June 2025
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Displaying 852 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

From my perspective—that is, from the position of a minister who is absolutely committed to apprenticeships and who sees this growing, not reversing—I do not see a problem there. If we look at the appetite for earn-as-you-learn models, the move being made in the university sector towards having more graduate apprenticeships and wanting to enhance them, and the needs of the economy, we see that there is a direction of travel. Because of the cost of living crisis, it is more challenging for young people to embark on some of those courses. Therefore, I envisage more of an emphasis on earn-as-you-learn models.

I do not see an issue at all here, but if the committee were to take the view that it would like some reassurance, we would be happy to consider that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

In terms of the money, yes, but in terms of presence in the new SFC, that will be massive, too.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

In what sense?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

The bill is not about providing leadership for the organisations that currently exist. On the back of the Withers review, we have spent a long time exploring what works well in the system and what does not work so well. The bill provides an opportunity to come at that from a fresh direction.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

Let me explain what I mean. If you look at reform in the round, you will see that there is a huge amount of support for all of the measures, of which the bill is a component part. I understand the argument about whether this is our most pressing ask right now in the context of funding and how it is delivered. If you look at the evidence, you will see that all the organisations are looking for an immediate funding boost. During the 2024 consultation, 80 per cent of the people and organisations that responded were in favour of the proposal.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

The bill is about delivering a coherent landscape that is sadly lacking at the moment, and I have no doubt that we will interrogate the detail of that in the next couple of hours. The legislation is absolutely necessary. It is not, by any means, the endgame, but it is important, because it would enable us to deliver many other aspects of reform that the whole sector and landscape will benefit from.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

I saw the assertions from SDS but struggle to see where it got those numbers from.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

Because we have to work through a process with the affected agencies.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

I will ask Andrew Mott to deal with the bill as it is drafted, and then I will answer the specific points of your question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Graeme Dey

As Andrew Mott said, we are, in a way, not comparing like with like, because a foundation apprenticeship is not a paid placement. Nevertheless, I absolutely see a role for that type of learning in the later stages of school. The Aberdeenshire model essentially treats a foundation apprenticeship like another higher—it has that status in the curriculum. I referred earlier to the model in Lanarkshire, where HNCs are delivered in sixth year, so that is another possibility. We are open to exploring all that as part of the wide-ranging look at the post-16 landscape, of which the bill that we are discussing is an enabling part.