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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 August 2025
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Displaying 856 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Before I move on to my questions, I want to go back to what Kenny Donnelly just said. What about a scenario in which two people of the same age commit the same offence but one is dealt with under the children’s hearings system while the other is referred to the criminal justice system? It can take up to two years for the latter to be dealt with, because of court delays, by which time the other person will have been dealt with, will perhaps have been rehabilitated and will have a more positive outlook. Is that not the greatest inconsistency here?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not disagree with that. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. We often find that victims and their families are looking for reassurance and want to know what measures have been taken to protect them, but it is impossible to get information on that. The ground for that is that that information cannot be shared, because those matters pertain to the alleged perpetrator. That exacerbates the sense of concern of victims and their families. That is what I am getting at.

I do not have the answer; I simply wanted to get a sense that you recognise that that is an issue.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I was struck by the idea that witnesses do not tell Parliament and committees what should be added to a bill by way of amendment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Are there any other comments, or does that cover it? If not, that is excellent—we will move on.

The bill provides that, where a child should be deprived of their liberty, no one under the age of 18 can be committed to a prison or a young offenders institution. They would instead enter secure accommodation or similar residential establishments. I think that we would all welcome that move, but do you have any concerns about moving to that set-up—perhaps around capacity? Are all of the existing facilities that would accommodate those young people of a suitable standard? I am not trying to put words into your mouth; I am just planting those ideas. Is there anything there that makes you think, “This is great, but—”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Graeme Dey

I do not need to be convinced—I have visited one—but, when there are changes to the law such as this, there will be an element of the public that will want that reassurance.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Graeme Dey

With respect, we should not be sitting here, disputing whether the figures are out by a factor of three or a factor of 11. I am pretty sure that, in evidence to us last week, the minister indicated that, after a meeting with Pam Duncan-Glancy late last year, an undertaking was given to talk to COSLA about the issue and get the answers. Has that meeting, for that purpose, taken place? It sounds like it has not taken place, because there is no agreement on the numbers.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Good morning. At last week’s meeting, the Scottish Transitions Forum talked about there being a “legislation salad”. The view has been expressed that the legislative landscape is already very congested. I am interested in exploring with you how easily you think the proposals in the bill would dovetail with existing duties and current policy development, such as the principles into practice trials, to avoid a situation whereby—regrettably, perhaps—that congestion would provide cover for more inaction rather than enable what we all want to see, which is an improvement in the situation.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Graeme Dey

What was the outcome?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Graeme Dey

Is another strategy not the last thing that we need? Is it not action that we need? On that basis, this process of interrogating your bill has laid bare, for all the committee members, I think, the shocking situation that exists.

Would the purpose that we are all committed to not be better served by looking closely at what does not work—rather than focusing on one aspect of it, or a couple of aspects, as your bill does—and changing lots of little things that would make a huge difference? Is there not a bigger picture here beyond the bill that we ought to be focusing on more?

10:30