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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 853 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

To put it simply, the funds that are generated by that amount remaining in the centre, coupled with another uplift that the Government has delivered, delivers 3.5 per cent in total.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

Context is everything. The position that Colleges Scotland adopted at the outset was to make a budget ask that many people would have considered unrealistic by any judgment. The capital ask represented 178 per cent of the overall capital budget at our disposal, and there was also a very significant increase in the revenue ask. Because that was their starting position, colleges will regard the settlement as falling somewhat short of that, but we should look at the trend in college funding. I recognise that the colleges are right to ask for as much as they hope to get, but the trend shows that the funding for colleges in 2025-26 is £50 million more than it was in 2019-20.

We all know that, at one point, inflation peaked at 10 per cent, so we recognise the challenges there. However, it is important to see the budget sitting alongside the other work that is going on with colleges, which would be acknowledged by individual colleges if they were sitting here today. There is the work of the tripartite group, which is developing those flexibilities.

09:45  

On the context of the asks that the sector makes, there was, for example, an issue around the application of maintenance, which we have responded to for 2024-25, and we are looking to do the same for 2025-26. That has made a significant difference operationally for individual colleges.

I recognise that we are focusing on the budget, but I stress the need to look at the work that is being done in parallel, such as the work on asset disposal and the on-going work to broaden the flexibilities to allow individual colleges to better respond to their local economic needs.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

I am a huge fan of programmes such as Career Ready, which many members will have come across, that involves people who have been successful in their careers giving back through a mentoring programme to support young people. It is quite a moving experience to visit some of those programmes—it is amazing to see what is happening. I am really keen that we maximise our support for that work. As part of our mapping exercise, we will look at where that sits with the developing the young workforce programme and some of the programmes within that. I want to ensure that we are providing a safety net, if you like, for young people and a real and meaningful opportunity for those who have not necessarily prospered in traditional education settings.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

I absolutely take on board the point about the involvement of the trade unions and engagement with their reps being more than lip service. We expect the trade unions to be actively involved in the recovery process and I will reinforce that with the SFC.

On your point about winning back trust, it is perfectly understandable, given what has happened, that the staff lack trust and have the concerns that they have. I cannot sit here and say that the Government has a role in rebuilding, but the role of the SFC here is important. It is not just about providing assistance; it is also about oversight. If the SFC identifies issues that cause it concern, it will be a matter for it to address them using its existing powers. However, we cannot always fix things retrospectively so, if there are lessons to take from the situation in the context of the wider sector—the whole of HE and FE—we will take them. I give you that undertaking.

I am happy to work with the committee and other members if lessons come out of the situation and something needs to be done regarding governance or the use of existing powers, more powers or the power of intervention. To be fair to the SFC, until we become aware of a problem, it is difficult to know what we would be intervening on. Please accept my assurance that we are all over this.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

I cannot say anything on it, because the Government is not directly involved in that. In the college sector, a three-year deal was agreed with support staff and, thereafter, a four-year deal was reached with the lecturers, the conclusion of which the Government supported. It will be up to the unions and the college employers to get together in due course this year to look at a pay settlement for the support staff in the context of 2025. That has not been raised directly with us in terms of Government participation. As I say, it is for the employers and the unions to negotiate a deal.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

But it is—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

There is a fair degree of urgency around developing that commercial office, and it would be wise to move on with that as quickly as we can. We are meeting a number of colleges this month to discuss some proposals that are specific to each college’s needs. We have been having a conversation with colleges in their entirety about whether they perceive that there are still impediments to rebalancing their offering in their localities to better meet the needs of the economy. If there are, we have asked them what they are and what we can do to help. That work has been driven by the SFC.

I go back to the point about flexibility. There are some developing conversations about what we can do to support individual institutions and empower their principals to get on and better align their offering to the needs of the area in which they operate.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

Do you mean in a broad sense?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

Mr Marra has the advantage of having formerly worked at the university and has lines into the university. As a minister, I do not oversee the individual finances of one institution after another; that is not my role at all. However, as I said, since the announcement of the £30 million deficit, the SFC has been actively engaging with the university and has sought the numbers behind how that deficit has been reached. I expect that, in addition to what the university does, the SFC will develop its understanding so that we know what happened at Dundee and whether that points to potential risks elsewhere.

We must learn from what has happened in Dundee. That is why I keep stressing that I am reluctant to speculate at this stage. We should all desist from speculating, because, until we understand exactly what happened, there is a risk that we exacerbate the situation and the level of concern. That is not to say that, once provided, the report or the explanation will not create further concern.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Graeme Dey

It is also the case that what has often been cited is a statement by someone in the university who has been represented as saying, “The university could fail.” However, I think what was said was, “If we don’t take steps to address this, it is so serious that it could fail.”

All that I can say to Mr Marra is that, from my conversation with the chair of court—and from the subsequent conversations that I know that the SFC has had with Dundee university—there is an optimism that it will get through this. There will be some pain attached to it, but it will get through it. Indeed, it is essential that it does, because it is an important institution in the Scottish university landscape.

12:00