Seòmar agus comataidhean

It is more than that. For example, we are all aware of the issue of getting young women into careers in science, technology, engineering and mathematics. The University of Edinburgh sends its STEM undergraduates into primary and secondary schools around Edinburgh and the Lothians to actively engage with young women in those schools to encourage them down that path. That is the type of activity that I am talking about, and it is not always publicly recognised. Our universities do fantastic work in this space, and we should be ready to acknowledge that.

I take that point, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. When the Parliament launched the approach, no one envisaged a pandemic or a cost of living crisis or that SIMD20 on its own would not get us there. You learn from the experience as you go through. I thought that there might have been a bit of resistance to the commissioner’s suggestion, but it appears that there is not. That is indicative of the commitment on the part of our institutions to deliver on this.

We have to be very careful about the role of ministers in that regard. There has to be a separation between ministers, the SFC and institutions, not least because of the institutions’ Office for National Statistics classification. Ministers will not be directly involved in directing the SFC as to how to allocate moneys and on what basis. That said, the cabinet secretary was clear that the moneys were available for the SFC to utilise in the space of supporting institutions with sustainability issues, including the University of Dundee, which is, without doubt, the most pressing example of an institution that has challenges. The SFC is currently engaging with it on the form and scale of support that will be provided. The SFC will also determine any conditions that are attached to that support. There is a daily dialogue between the SFC and the University of Dundee.

It is a matter for the SFC. I understand the point that you make, but I refer you back to the point that I made at the outset about the relationship between ministers and individual institutions, and ONS classification. It is a matter for the SFC to determine how it spends those moneys. The University of Dundee is self-evidently in a different place from where a number of other institutions are in terms of the challenges that it faces. Ultimately, the SFC will make that determination.

What the recovery plan will do is shed light on the scale of the challenge that the university faces. It will, I anticipate, also identify how the university intends to get itself out of that situation. The SFC is in contact with my officials every couple of days, and there will be conversations at the point at which they identify what that looks like.

I suspect that I will be asked to.

Even if we come back with merely an estimate for you, we will look to do so.

Well, Mr Briggs, the budget process has concluded, and I have to say that I do not recall any of the other parties in that process asking for additional funding for the purpose that you have alluded to.

Those moneys were included in the budget in response to some of the challenges that the SFC identified. I also point out that those challenges are not unique to Scottish universities and that it is a UK-wide problem. We have seen issues in Wales and in England, some of which are more serious than those that are faced by the majority of our universities.

There is a challenge for our universities, particularly in relation to the recruitment of international students. We will work, through the SFC, with our institutions. It is a big issue but there is no magic bullet and, as you have alluded to, we are not going to be in a position to come up with an enhanced fund that will resolve the issues. I hate to use the expression, but some universities are effectively downsizing to match themselves to their income. In some cases, they are reverting to the position that they were in two or three years ago, before they expanded in response to an influx of students, particularly from Nigeria.

The issue of international student recruitment has largely, and rightly, been blamed on immigration policy, but the issue with Nigerian students was about much more than that and was caused by two deflations of the currency. My conversations with universities show that they are now far more circumspect about how they will grow in the future and that, although they hope for an uptick in international student numbers, they will be more careful about how they grow and about the projections that come from that.

I am not clear on that—I seem to remember that it might not. Again, we will write to you on that. I am being a bit vague, but that is because we have been completely focused on whether we can implement it in the first instance. We would then look at how we would do that.

When there is a giant bear trap in front of you, Mr Mason, you do not want to step on it. I am not going to go there on that wider question—I am underqualified to comment on it. My focus is on my element of the education portfolio. As I have outlined to the convener, I am frustrated about the impediments to doing what is, after all, the right thing. However, we are working very hard to identify the means that will allow us—I will not say to get round the problem—to deliver on what we want to deliver.