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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 May 2025
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Displaying 1276 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

Mr Rennie is well aware that we produce a financial memorandum that covers the bill, and that is what we have done. If, at this moment, I were to pluck from the air a figure for care—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

According to the financial memorandum that covers off the aspects of the bill, if we transfer off children’s services to care boards the figure for 2026-27 is £1.5 billion.

We will clarify all the figures with the Parliament as we move forward. I know that some folk want me to do the annual budgeting for the service for the next umpteen years—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

—but I think that Mr Swinney would not be particularly happy with me if I were to do so. We have said to the finance committee that, as we move beyond the figures that are contained in the financial memorandum, we will publish every business case for scrutiny.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

The financial memorandum contains a range of figures on the restructuring costs. Page 6 shows the total estimated cost of the bill’s provisions, giving ballpark figures. For care boards, the figures for 2025-26 range from £132 million to £326 million. For 2026-27, the figures range from £142 million to £376 million.

We can spell out more of the financial memorandum to the committee if it requires us to do so. We can also provide it with a comprehensive report—or even have officials come and speak to its members—on the workings in the financial memorandum, on many of which I have already been questioned by the finance committee. The figures are there in the financial memorandum that covers the bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

No decision has been taken on that. It is part of the co-design process.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

I do not have an answer on whether we could provide those figures to the committee. We will see what we can do to provide anything that the committee asks for.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

Ms Colvin has just told me that we are still in discussion with COSLA on that issue. We do not hold that data centrally so, in some regards, we are reliant on getting that information from COSLA. If we can get that information, we will get it to you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

That commissioning would be done by local care boards. Let me expand on that. In all of this, there is the opportunity for a once-for-Scotland approach for specialised services. One of the key elements of the bill is ethical commissioning, and we want to get that right.

I said that that commissioning would be done by local care boards. We are very aware that, for some specialisms and for some very complex cases, there is real difficulty at the moment in getting it right for folks. That is why the bill includes the ability to set up special care boards to deal with those once-for-Scotland elements that involve more complexity.

As the committee can well imagine, some pretty complex cases cross our desks regularly. Health and social care partnerships, local authorities and health boards have great difficulty in commissioning the right service for those individuals because of the complexity of their needs. We have the ability to make a real difference here and to take a national approach, with flexibility at a local level.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

Iona Colvin wants to come in first.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Kevin Stewart

We could provide many examples of where services have not delivered well for people. Again, I hearken back to what I said earlier: some of the areas in which there are real difficulties for folks are the transition stages from children’s services to adult services.

Members have probably had correspondence in their mailbags and inboxes about some young person who leaves school and is then left with nothing in terms of care and support. That will obviously have a major impact on somebody with a disability or a learning disability. There are a lot of examples of where that transition has not worked. We could probably provide the committee with some very good examples, but I am always a bit feart of giving examples, because we could end up with a situation in which an individual can be identified, given that some of the circumstances are so complicated.