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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 November 2025
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Displaying 1570 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Speaking to people is fine, and listening to people is important, but doing so does not necessarily mean change.

I want to ask about cross-Government working, because the issue is covered by a lot of portfolios. What do you have in place at the moment, beyond the likes of the prevention review group? What do you have at a ministerial, cross-Government level to make sure that all of this works?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Convener, I do not want to speak for the committee, but it would be interesting to see what has been on the agenda at those meetings and what actions have been taken.

My final question is about buy-in and the change of culture. Many of the relevant bodies in the bill fall under other ministers’ portfolios. With regard to engagement thus far, have other ministers asked those bodies how they intend to make changes to fulfil the duties that will come in if the bill is passed?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I am going to try to pin you down, minister. At one point, in answer to Marie McNair, you said that we must ensure that legislation and regulation are embedded. What are you doing to ensure that legislation and regulation are embedded and that folk comply with legislation, in order to help those victims?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Given the huge emphasis being placed on the summer engagement in this morning’s meeting, it would be useful if the committee could get a flavour of what that engagement will actually involve. By the sound of it, it will be a key element of how you move forward. It would be fair to say that some of the folks from whom the committee has heard feel that there has been a fair degree of engagement already, although more is required, while others feel that the engagement has not been of the right sort. Therefore, it would be a good idea for the committee to have a flavour of what that engagement will involve and how it will be carried out. I wonder whether the minister can agree to that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I have no relevant interests to declare.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Thank you very much. I will leave it there, convener.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I thank the witnesses for their answers thus far. I think that everybody agrees that the legislation is necessary. Everybody, as always, has tried to point out the best practice that is taking place. It is just a pity that that was not exported across the board. However, the legislation alone is probably not enough, and there needs to be cultural change across the board. I want to concentrate on some of that and on keeping folk out of crisis.

I was interested in two things that Valerie Arbuckle said. First, you said that “everybody is very busy”. I get that. Most folk are busy dealing with crisis and will become less busy only if they are not dealing with crisis. Secondly, you used the phrase,

“handing the person ... to another ... body”.

I will be honest with you. If that attitude continues—if it is seen to be about handing the person to another body rather than about collaborating with other bodies to provide support—that will not bring about the cultural change that we want to see. Do you want to comment on that, Ms Arbuckle?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

Thank you. I could ask what you mean by “robust”, but I had probably better leave that for now, and you might give us an indication afterwards of what you would like to see in terms of that “robust” action.

I turn briefly to Suzie Mcilloney on the culture change aspect. We all know that excellent legislation can be brought into play—we heard earlier from witnesses about our having some of the best homelessness legislation in the world—but that it does not necessarily work for everyone in practice. What do we need to do to underpin the new legislation when it comes to that cultural change? What should we ask public bodies to do to ensure that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

We all recognise that a holistic approach needs to be taken, but I think that that kind of phraseology—that is, talking about handing someone over to another body—is part of the problem. Some folk think, “That’s my part of the job done. Now it’s somebody else’s problem.”

Ms Arbuckle, you mentioned some areas in which the police are involved in order to deal with addiction and mental health issues—for example, you talked about DBI. Do you see that sort of thing as part of the job, or is it just a wee bit that you do before handing the person over to somebody else?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 June 2024

Kevin Stewart

I am using your phraseology, Ms Arbuckle. It is not my phraseology—it is yours.