Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning, convener and the committee. Thank you for allowing me to join you this morning.

I am sure that, as you have said, convener, we all appreciate the life-saving skill of swimming and the importance of our swimming pools and the health benefits that they can provide to people of all ages.

In the brief time that I have, though, I want to concentrate my remarks on the impact on children and young people of having the opportunity to learn the basics of water safety and having the ability to swim. According to Scottish Swimming analysis from quite some time ago, 40 per cent of primary school-age children were leaving school without the ability to swim. That shocking statistic should deeply concern all of us.

As you said, convener, I raised the issue of the provision of school swimming, in particular, at last week’s general question time, and there was cross-party support for that. I recognise, too, the cross-party support for this petition. I have to say that I was not particularly encouraged by the minister’s response, and that is why I am here today. When I asked for the latest statistics on the number of children and young people across Scotland who were leaving school without the ability to swim, the minister was unable to give them to me. We should at the very least be able to quantify the problem, with the latest statistics. I was also disappointed by the lack of detail from the minister when I asked about the Government’s plan to ensure that every child and young person had the opportunity to learn the skills that I mentioned.

What we do know—because Scottish Swimming has told us this—is that since the pandemic the demand for swimming lessons has never been higher. I know that from my own children and, indeed, the backlog in swimming lessons. However, community access to pools is being reduced not just by pool closures but by the significant reduction in the opening hours of existing pools across Scotland. Costs are rising for families, too, as was evidenced on Saturday by an article in The Herald by Andrew Learmonth that set out information showing that the cost of juvenile swimming lessons and sessions had risen by 30 per cent over the past six years.

There are also proposals to close swimming pools. There is the example of the five in Dundee, but I know that Dundee City Council is not alone in facing these problems. I appreciate that not every school and not every community has a swimming pool, but, to put it simply, I believe that the current picture is making it harder for young people to learn the life-saving skill of swimming, whether in or out of school.

The petition urges the Scottish Government to help keep our swimming pools and leisure centres open by providing financial investment for pools, and it would be remiss of me not to mention that, a couple of years ago, the Scottish Government received £6 million of Barnett consequentials from the then United Kingdom Government’s swimming pool support fund. I, along with a number of colleagues, urged the Scottish Government, on a cross-party basis, to pass that money on to local councils and leisure trusts. Sadly, that did not happen.

We recognise that swimming pools are expensive to run, particularly given the energy costs, but we also have to recognise that we have had swimming pools for decades and they have survived past energy crises. We also need to plan now for energy prices reducing, as we hope they will do, in the years to come.

I ask the committee to consider, in addition to what is set out in the petition, my view that the status quo is not good enough. It would, of course, be welcome if the Scottish Government were to do what Scottish Swimming was calling for—who would not agree with that? However, if it does not, the question is what the Government and Parliament will do to ensure that the provision that we have is properly utilised, to identify the current extent of the problem of young people leaving school without the ability to swim, and how the Government plans to address it.

I hope that members of the committee will consider those points and raise those questions with the Scottish Government.

That is an important issue to look at. The BBC will be at committee next week; I am sure that ensuring that Scotland and all nations and regions of the UK get their fair share of production will be a topic of discussion.

On cross-portfolio working, I want to ask about education. Robert Burns is a significant part of Scottish culture. His writings have influenced our history and have been part of the curriculum for some time. However, the move to downgrade Burns from higher English has been criticised by many, including Professor Gerard Carruthers, who holds the Francis Hutcheson chair of Scottish literature at the University of Glasgow, who has said:

“It is vitally important that we provide our young people with endless opportunities to study Burns”.

What is the culture secretary of the Scottish Government’s view on the downgrading of Burns in the curriculum in Scottish education?

The question is on the cross-portfolio scheme.

I have a couple of questions on cross-portfolio working and policies. The first question is on the economy. The office of the chief economic adviser reported that

“Employment in the Creative Industries sector stood at 90,000 in 2023, accounting for 3.4% of employment in Scotland and 5.4% of employment in Creative Industries across Great Britain.”

There is a significant relative gap between Scotland and Great Britain in creative industries employment. That is obviously not a role just for the culture portfolio—there is also a wider economic role. I have raised this issue with you before. Can you confirm that creative industries will be part of the wider review, and that the role of economic development agencies in supporting culture and the creative industries will form part of that review?

Cabinet secretary, last week, you tweeted:

“Glad to see the Scottish Government’s budget is set to pass”.

That is all, thank you.

A week is a long time in politics.

Have you raised the removal of Burns as a stand-alone author with the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and the Scottish Qualifications Authority—

Okay. I thank you for that.

Yesterday, the Deputy First Minister announced a review of the indicators and outcomes in the national performance framework. The current national outcome for culture is that

“We are creative and our vibrant and diverse cultures are expressed and widely enjoyed.”

The national performance framework includes four indicators for culture which are

“attendance at cultural events or places of culture ... participation in a cultural activity ... growth in the arts, culture and creative economy ... people working in arts, culture and creative industries”

In the context of the budget announcement yesterday, do you believe that the indicators and outcomes are broadly correct? Do any of them need to be changed and is there anything that is not included in the indicators and outcomes for culture but should be included?