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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 November 2025
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Displaying 1290 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

Those are all very powerful and effective arguments. However, we have seen that when something moves from being guidance to being statutory, there can be mission creep. Staff can overcompensate because the guidance has a legal footing. In other words, when that happens, things grow arms and legs. Do you not see a circumstance in which—even though there is all the best training and all the right guidance—a staff member might hesitate? What is right for one child is different from what is right for another. The line between what is acceptable and what is not is not clear: it is an invisible line that moves constantly. Do you not see that staff members, with all the other things that are going on in the classroom, might just hesitate for a split second because of that mission creep?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

I have supported Daniel Johnson’s bill—I have signed up to it and I have done a bit of work on the issues, in particular with Beth Morrison—but I will ask some probing questions, because it is our job to ensure that we get this right.

I have not heard this morning about what is, in the most extreme of circumstances, considered to be acceptable restraint. Let us say that a young person is uncontrolled and they are a danger to themselves. How far can you go?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

How long?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

It is about what happens in the moment when the child has lost control, is it not? You might think, “Have they really lost control? Should I step in now or should I wait a little longer?” That might be the crucial moment. You are right—if it is obvious that a child is going to run on to the road, any teacher would do what they could to save them, because that situation would be clear cut. It is the moment of hesitancy that people are worried about. They are saying that, if anything puts up a barrier to them safeguarding the child for fear of being prosecuted for using what would be an illegal restraint, that would be a step too far for them. Can you understand that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

I apologise for pressing you. Suzi, do you want to comment?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

So, you would hold the child. How tight, for how long? When, and in what position? What can you do to save that child’s life?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

Okay. I know what is not good. What I want to hear about is what is okay—not good, I suppose, but okay in extreme circumstances. You mentioned holding a child and sitting them down. How long could that go on for?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

But it might not be as black and white as that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

Explain it to me, then.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Willie Rennie

I am sorry to be more probing—