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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 October 2025
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Displaying 1234 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

That is fine.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

I am sorry, but the commissioner’s office is not making such an argument. It is arguing that we should use this time to work up emergency powers at a reasonable pace for implementation in an emergency rather than put them in place now, when there is no emergency. The commissioner’s office argues that we should take our time now to get this right because, as we will discuss later, there are serious questions about the prescriptive model that you are adopting.

Why are we not taking our time to produce something now for implementation later? I know that there is more time now to consider the bill than there would be in an emergency—I am not arguing about that, and that is not what the commissioner’s office is talking about. It says that we should prepare draft emergency legislation now so that it can be implemented when an emergency arises.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

I have one final question. Does the fact that you never used these powers throughout the pandemic, and they were never required to be used, not just prove the point that the colleges and universities are making, which is that the powers within the original emergency act were too prescriptive and it would never have been possible to use them for that very reason? If they were never used before in that format, why on earth are we replicating what we never used before because it was too prescriptive? Why not take the framework approach, which is far more sensible and, in fact, the way that you worked the last time?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

How do the proposed powers impact on the Charities and Trustee Investment (Scotland) Act 2005?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Willie Rennie

I have a final question. I commend the Government for the fairness and reasonableness of its approach through the pandemic. There is no doubt that there was consensus. You brought us in and we engaged.

There is absolutely no guarantee that that will continue. You are now asking this Parliament to give you permanent powers for an emergency on the basis that you are nice and reasonable people. However, this Parliament cannot guarantee that that will be the case for evermore, so you are asking Parliament to take a big step in giving you those powers for evermore on the basis that you are fair and reasonable people. You are that now, but that might not be the case in the future. That is why I think that there is a real danger that you are asking us to do more than we should be doing.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Willie Rennie

Megan Farr, you have given a pragmatic response and set out a potential way ahead that deals with the concerns that some of my colleagues, including Fergus Ewing, expressed earlier about the need to respond quickly in an emergency while making sure that we do not have permanent and disproportionate emergency powers.

There are two elements to this. There is the length of time that the powers are in place and there is the content of those powers. In an earlier session, we heard that leaders of various higher education institutions think that what is proposed is micromanaging far too much, that there should be broad principles and that they should be allowed to get on with implementing them. There is a debate about whether that is right, and then there is the debate about the length of time.

I would like you to comment on the content aspect, if that is okay. Are you saying that we should use the time now to debate the content and then have the legislation ready to roll if the event were to happen again? Are you saying that, perhaps rather than legislating now, we should debate now and get it ready?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Willie Rennie

I am curious about this issue. It surely does not matter who makes the final call, because the professional advice from the public health officials will be the same no matter who makes the decision. Why is it necessary to have multiple people legally entitled to close the school when the advice will be the same? The issue here is surely about ensuring that we have the right advice about how to proceed and clear authority and partnership to make it happen. David Belsey, why is it necessary to have multiple bodies making the call?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Willie Rennie

As a Liberal, I am really grateful that you have raised that issue. What has been the response from the Government to that proposal?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Willie Rennie

Go on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Willie Rennie

Thank you. That merits quite a lot of further discussion, but it would probably try the committee’s patience if we were to go too far down that route.