The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
Can you direct that to one person? We cannot hear from everyone, given the timeframe.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
You do not have any volunteers.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
I will ask my next question. We have heard from our witnesses on the bill that we have fairly strong legislation in the Regulatory Reform (Scotland) Act 2014, and there has been some suggestion that adjusting the penalties in the 2014 act might achieve as much as the bill. Do countries that are looking to introduce legislation on ecocide already have legislation that is as strong as ours clearly is, or are they starting with a blank bit of paper? Who would like to answer that?
If you all look away, I will have to nominate somebody. If you are remote and want to answer, just raise your hand. You have all looked away, so Rachel, do you want to have a go at answering?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
Thank you, Rachel, but it is the question that I asked, so I will go to Ricardo.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
No—you are in the firing line.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
I will bring in Monica Lennon. I am sorry, Monica, but, due to pressures of time, you get one question and one question only.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
I will come in briefly as I am not understanding something. I think that the suggestion is that the issuing of the permit may have been reckless because it was not properly considered, unless I have got that wrong. Kevin, is that what you are asking about?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
I think that in our first evidence session we heard that an absolute protection against individual workers was wanted and that only companies should hold responsibility. We are getting the impression from today’s panel that that is not a sensible way forward.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
Our second item of business is an evidence session on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill. We are gathering evidence on the general principles of the bill before we report to the Parliament at stage 1. The Parliament has not yet set a stage 1 deadline.
Today, we will take evidence from two panels of witnesses, and these will be our fourth and fifth evidence sessions on the bill. I welcome our first panel: Dr Clare Frances Moran, lecturer and co-director of the Aberdeen centre for constitutional and public international law at the University of Aberdeen; Murdo MacLeod KC; Rachael Weir, head of policy and engagement at the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service; and Iain Batho, head of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service’s wildlife and environmental crime unit. I thank the witnesses for attending the meeting.
My first questions are a gentle warmer into the bank to get you into the swing of answering questions. Do you agree with how ecocide is defined in the bill, or do you have suggestions for how the definition could be strengthened? Does the bill target the appropriate level and type of environmental harm? Does it deal with the issue of future challenges in interpreting the definitions?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 11 November 2025
Edward Mountain
I will bring in the deputy convener, Michael Matheson.