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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 February 2026
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Displaying 6874 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I will try to give you a real-life scenario. Take, for example, a river in Scotland—it does not matter where it is—where the water is abstracted to create power, which goes into the national grid, and to provide drinking water for local communities. One year—as has happened this year—the water levels get critically low, and abstracting the water means that a freshwater mussel population is destroyed, and it is determined that the act represents ecocide, because the mussels were definitely an endangered population. If the defence is that doing that was necessary to give power to the national grid and to provide local people with drinking water, who will make the decision in that regard?

Valerie, you are shaking your head. I think that local people might be annoyed if they cannot get a drink of water in the evening.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Well, at the end of the day, you will probably die if you cannot drink.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Monica Lennon has a couple of questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Do you have a second question? I am conscious of the time.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I thank the witnesses for coming to give evidence. I apologise for making you answer more questions and stay longer than you had expected, but that may have happened because you gave such detailed answers, so I am going to let you shoulder some of the blame. I know that some of you have offered to submit information to the committee after the meeting. The sooner that you can do that, the better, because there are pressures on our timescale.

I suspend the meeting until 10:40.

10:32 Meeting suspended.  

10:41 On resuming—  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Thank you.

My next question is based on that. Do you think that there is a significant risk of an ecocide event, as defined in the bill, happening in Scotland? We will start the other way round, with Catherine McWilliam.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

It sounds as though you are taking the fifth amendment. Simon?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I have no idea what that means. Could you explain it to me?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Okay, so my frying pan is bad for two reasons.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Bob Doris wants to come in, but first I want to press on one little thing. Under the offence of ecocide, the bill defines long-term harm as damage that

“is irreversible or is unlikely to be reversed through a process of natural recovery within 12 months”.

That means that, although something might be able to be done to speed up the process, if there was not a natural recovery process, an unfortunate event would still be ecocide, even if somebody had done everything in their power to reverse it. Are you comfortable with that?