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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 March 2026
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Displaying 7218 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

Before I go to Mark Ruskell for a supplementary question, I want to put some figures to the witnesses. I am looking back at the information that we have. When I started in this Parliament, 10 years ago, the cost of concessionary travel was, I think, about £193 million a year. We have now heard that it has gone up to £414 million a year. In that time, the number of kilometres that cars travel has gone up considerably—it is very difficult to put an exact figure to it, but it is perhaps up to a billion kilometres, according to Transport Scotland. Meanwhile, trips by buses have dropped by 150 million kilometres. Concessionary travel is a very expensive way—the cost having risen by £200 million—to get more car kilometres travelled and fewer bus trips taken. Would you say, therefore, that it is a poorly targeted intervention?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

I think that the climate change plan suggests a figure of £89.9 million in the first period of four years. However, that is based on the deposit return scheme at 2023 prices, which seems wildly out of date, but there we go.

We will leave the deposit return scheme and move straight to Mark Ruskell with the next questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

Kim Pratt, could you comment on whether you think the waste emission pathway in the plan will deliver, and whether the Government has set the right ambitions in the plan?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

I am not disputing your thought process; I am trying to work out where the £12.7 billion that is needed will come from, and the net costs, because a saving of £6 billion, £6.7 billion or £6.9 billion—whatever it is—is not going to be achieved by active travel.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

The next questions will come from Mark Ruskell.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

I understand that, but I also understand that the low-hanging fruit are urban centres where buses, bicycling and changing the use of streets make more sense. In rural areas, they do not make a lot of sense.

I want to go back to a point that I made earlier. I am completely confused, because I went through the costs and benefits, which none of the witnesses have challenged me on, and I am sure you would have looked at them. I gave you a non-cumulative benefit figure that was identified by the Government in annex 3. If you add those figures together, it comes to a total financial benefit figure of £26 billion, with a cost estimate of £12.7 billion. I am interested that you did not challenge me on the figures that I gave you, because I tripped myself up to find out whether that was an area that you had looked at, but you have not really looked at the costs of this and were not able to challenge me on it. You just accepted the figures that I gave you, even though they were incorrect. Why would that give me confidence that what you are suggesting will be correct?

Adrian Davis, as you answered, I will come to you first.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

I am just saying that I have struggled, like most people who have picked up the massive climate change plan. It is massive, and it formed a good part of my Christmas reading—that is probably a sorry state of affairs to be in. I have looked at the figures, and I cannot make them work. Having quoted the figures at you, I am interested to see that you do not seem to be able to make them work either. Maybe the Government will understand them.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 6 January 2026

Edward Mountain

In relation to the evidence that we have heard so far, I want to drag us back to the Highlands and Islands, which is the area that I live in. We do not have such transport routes. Yesterday, there were no trains and no buses. If I had jumped on a bicycle to get here, I would probably have got only as far as Aviemore by now. How do we sell this policy to the people who are not the low-hanging fruit, who might be penalised by some of the things that have been suggested?

Sara, do you want to have a go at answering that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 16 December 2025

Edward Mountain

I am sorry—I am in the most impossible situation.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Draft Climate Change Plan

Meeting date: 16 December 2025

Edward Mountain

Monica, have you a brief follow-up for anyone in particular?