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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 July 2025
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Displaying 5973 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the 34th meeting in 2022 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee.

The first item on the agenda is a decision on whether to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private. Item 4 is consideration of the evidence that we will hear under item 2, item 5 is consideration of a draft letter to the Scottish Government and item 6 is consideration of a draft report on the legislative consent memorandum on the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

Before we move to item 2, I declare an interest. As members will know from my entry in the register of members’ interests, I have an interest in an agricultural farming partnership and in property rental markets. I want to get that on the record because some of the subject areas that we will cover today will include those.

Item 2 is an evidence session on the Climate Change Committee’s recently published review of Scottish emissions targets and its progress report to the Scottish Parliament. On 7 December, the CCC laid in the Parliament its 11th annual progress report, as required by the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009. The report sets out 99 recommendations to the Scottish Government for meeting Scotland’s emissions reduction targets for the years 2020, 2030 and 2045. I refer members to the relevant papers under agenda item 2.

I welcome our witnesses from the Climate Change Committee, who join us remotely. They are the Rt Hon the Lord Deben, who is the chairman; Professor Keith Bell, Scotland champion; and Marili—I am going to get this wrong. Is it Marili? Sorry, I am fudging my words. We have with us Marili Boufounou—I hope that I finally got that right—who is an analyst of the devolved Administrations, and Emily Nurse, who is team leader of carbon budgets. I thank you all for accepting our invitation. We are delighted to have you here. Before we ask questions, I invite Lord Deben to make an opening statement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

That is very helpful. Mark Ruskell has some questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

We are going to come back to those three areas in some detail, so you can rest assured that they will be raised in further questioning. You will not be surprised to hear that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

Keith, you have very neatly moved on to a subject that Mark Ruskell wants to ask about, so I will bring him in next. Liam Kerr then wants to ask a supplementary question, and I would like to ask a quick question after that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

I tried hard to restrain myself and could not: I want to talk briefly about energy performance certificates. When EPCs were introduced, no one thought that they were a good idea or a good measure of energy efficiency. In fact, you could almost replace the lights in a property with LED lights and, as a result, get a higher rating than putting in double-glazed windows would give you.

Are EPCs the way forward, or do we need to come up with a clever plan rather than just saying that, for example, if a house does not achieve EPC rating C, it is not fit for occupancy? I do now know who wants to answer that. You could just satisfy me by saying that EPCs are not great and we need a better system, but I do not want to put words into your mouths.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

We are up against the time, so we need to move on.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

Thank you very much for that. As the convener, I get the first question. I am not sure who will want to answer this; if you would like to answer it, just raise your hand and I will bring you in. The danger is that, if no one raises their hand, I will arbitrarily pick somebody, which we do not want.

Lord Deben, I do not know whether you are saying something to me, but your microphone is off. When you indicate that you want to speak, I can bring you in. Did you want to say something?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

Of course, as an ex-soldier, I like the idea of ordering somebody to answer, but it does not always work.

Could we please have a couple of examples of good-news projects in which the UK has worked together with Scotland to achieve a target, and a couple of brief examples of areas in which they have failed to work together but could have worked together and achieved more than has been achieved? I do not know who would like to start off with that question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Committee’s Review of Scottish Emissions Targets and Progress Report 2022

Meeting date: 20 December 2022

Edward Mountain

Emily, you are starting off.