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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 24 December 2025
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Displaying 6583 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

—whereas the bill says that there has to be

“a process of natural recovery”,

which confirms that people cannot do anything. If nature cannot reverse something, it has got to be ecocide.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I clarify that the term “wanton intent” was taken out.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Monica Lennon will have a chance to ask her questions, too.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I think that Valerie Fogleman wanted to come in on that point. Did you want to come in there, Valerie?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Good morning and welcome to the 28th meeting in 2025 of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. I welcome to the committee Sarah Boyack, who is the Labour Party substitute member. Under rule 9.1.3A of our standing orders, Monica Lennon is not entitled to exercise the rights of a committee member in relation to agenda items 1, 2 and 3, because she is the member in charge of the bill that the committee will be considering under those items. Under those circumstances, the Labour Party substitute member Sarah Boyack is entitled to take her place.

Monica Lennon is, however, attending our meeting and, as all members of the Scottish Parliament are, she is entitled to attend the public evidence session. In accordance with how I have always run committees, I will give her a chance to ask some questions of each panel at the end of the discussions.

When we get to item 4, which does not concern the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill, rule 9.1.3A no longer applies to Monica Lennon and I understand that she will take part in the item in her capacity as a committee member; Sarah Boyack will not take part in that item. I hope that that is all clear.

Item 3 is consideration of the evidence heard on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill; item 4 is consideration of a draft report on the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009 (Scottish Carbon Budgets) Amendment Regulations 2025. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Our second item of business is an evidence session on the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill, which is a member’s bill that Monica Lennon MSP has introduced. It is our first evidence session on the bill at stage 1. Our role at stage 1 is to gather evidence and information to decide whether to recommend that the Parliament support the general principles of the bill.

We ran a call for written views on the bill over the summer. Today, we will hear from two panels representing a diversity of interests and expertise. First, I would like to welcome Jamie Whittle, who is the chair of the environmental law sub-committee at the Law Society of Scotland; Professor Valerie Fogleman, who is professor of law at the Cardiff University school of law and politics, and a consultant at Stevens & Bolton LLP; Sue Miller, who is the chief networks officer at Stop Ecocide International; and Dr Shivali Fifield, who is chief officer at the Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland. Thank you all for attending this morning, and thanks to all those people who provided written evidence to help us prepare for the session.

As is generally the case, I will start with easy questions. The first question is for each of you. Is a new offence of ecocide needed in Scotland? What are the opportunities for the bill to tackle the climate and nature crises, and what do you perceive as its limitations? That is a really open-ended question and you will not get half an hour each on it; I would like a couple of salient points from each of you, so that you do not steal one another’s thunder. Because Valerie Fogleman is in the room, I will let her start.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

I am sure that you will get lots of questions during the course of the meeting.

Jamie, you are at the top left of the screen as I look at it, so you are next.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Sue Miller is next in line, but something has happened to her screen. I will suspend the meeting while we sort out our information technology problems, because I cannot see her.

08:57 Meeting suspended.  

08:58 On resuming—  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Michael Matheson has a brief question.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Ecocide (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Edward Mountain

Mark, you were waiting to come in on various issues, and we have finally come to you.